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I wish I could source it, but I recall reading an anthropological study of drinking that mentioned that solo drinking is universally shunned across all cultures

I wish I could source it, but I recall reading an anthropological study of drinking that mentioned that solo drinking is universally shunned across all cultures. There's also something perverse about associating this with Zen given that abstaining from intoxicants is the fifth precept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_precepts#Fifth_precept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_precepts#Fifth_precept). I would never say there is no insight that could be gleaned from this -- people are different, after all -- but I agree with the other comment that this justifies an unhealthy adaptive strategy. We have deeper and healthier modes of self-knowledge than this.

deleted 5y ago
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pelagicAustral 5y ago
- From "Social and Cultural Aspects of Drinking" [0]: "The most important of these cross-cultural constants in the social norms governing alcohol use is the near-universal taboo on solitary drinking. The fact that drinking is, in almost all cultures, essentially a social act, is recognised throughout the anthropological literature, and ethnographic data from a wide range of cultures indicate that solitary drinking is at the very least ‘negatively evaluated’, and often specifically proscribed." - Drinking and masculinity in everyday Swedish culture [1]: ""Drinking alone should not be done. To drink alone is to be anti-social (by not wanting to share); it is commonly thought to be an indication of alcoholism. And alcoholism is shameful: to be labelled an alcoholic is a condemnation beyond words…"" - Also touching solo-drinking: "America Has a Drinking Problem" [2]: "He and his onetime graduate student Kasey Creswell, a Carnegie Mellon professor who studies solitary drinking, have come to believe that one key to understanding drinking’s uneven effects may be the presence of other people. Having combed through decades’ worth of literature, Creswell reports that in the rare experiments that have compared social and solitary alcohol use, drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." - Pandemic related, "When Drinking Alone Becomes A Problem" (2021) [3] - From Kasey Creswell, "Drinking Together and Drinking Alone: A Social-Contextual Framework for Examining Risk for Alcohol Use Disorder " [4] "The context in which drinking occurs is a critical but relatively understudied factor in alcohol use disorder (AUD) etiology. In this article, I offer a social-contextual framework for examining AUD risk by reviewing studies on the unique antecedents and deleterious consequences of social compared with solitary alcohol use in adolescents and young adults." --- [0] http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html [1] https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9780203031803-12/drinking-masculinity-everyday-swedish-culture-gunilla-bjer%C3%A9n https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97802030... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america-drinking-alone-problem/619017/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america... [3] https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/news/2021/creswell-aud.html https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/news/2021/creswell-a... [4] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0963721420969406?journalCode=cdpa https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/096372142096940...
- akprasad 5y ago
  Thank you! I think the first is where I first read it.
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  "drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." I wonder how much of this is "set and setting", something that is well known with other drugs. Maybe people tend toward depression when they drink alone because that's what they expect to happen?
  - jimmaswell 5y ago
    > "drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." Never been the case for me, even when I used to do it a bit too often.
  - taneq 5y ago
    Maybe people with depression tend towards drinking alone?
    - JohnBooty 5y ago
      I have zero problems agreeing that drinking alone because one is sad is potentially a very, very, bad habit that in a worst-case scenario can lead to full-blown alcoholism. Yeah, I have to wonder if people are seriously mixing up correlation and causation. I think the danger (or lack thereof) of solo drinking is highly dependent on a person's reasons for drinking. I like to get mildly drunk, alone, perhaps... an average of once per month? I've been doing this for about 20 years with no increase in frequency. The key is, I only do this when I'm happy. It's like a little celebration. For whatever reason, I do not desire alcohol when I'm feeling down. The thought of alcohol's effects seems repugnant to me at those times.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    The joy and euphoria aren't a result of the presence of people. They're effects of the drug. Whatever asshole wrote this would probably say the same thing about being sober alone.
theNJR 5y ago
Was it this Atlantic article? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america-drinking-alone-problem/619017/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america...
- akprasad 5y ago
  This looks like a great article, but I believe I first saw it here (& thanks to pelagicAustral for finding it): http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html And there's some related HN discussion on the article here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17488786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17488786
- nicbou 5y ago
  That's certainly the one I had on my mind, but I'm another user.
version_five 5y ago
I think being a loner is generally seen as unusual though isn't it? I enjoy drinking alone, exercising alone, traveling alone, sitting alone, working alone. I don't really think I'm that weird by objective standards, there are also things I like doing with people (I'm married and have a family), but as a sometimes introvert, I definitely value time alone, including relaxing with a beer. Related, when I went to university, I lived in residence and i remember sitting by myself at meals and having people come and basically think they were doing me a favor talking to me, because only a loser would want to sit by himself. I found it both annoying (because I wanted to be alone) and condescending (because people see you alone and come talk to you like you must have no friends) - all that to say, society seems to look at you funny if you enjoy being by yourself, so I wouldn't read too much into sllo drinking being shunned specifically.
- ameminator 5y ago
  As a fellow loner, who agrees with the majority of what you just said - let's not meet.
  - taneq 5y ago
    "One of my best friends. We still sometimes never talk."
- Aloha 5y ago
  No one shuns reading alone, listening to music alone, or watching a movie alone. Drinking alone is more dangerous than drinking with friends.
  - rzzzt 5y ago
    Watching a movie alone in the comfort of your own home? I get that. Going to the cinema alone? Definitely shunned.
    - Aloha 5y ago
      Depends on the circumstance, I used to travel for a living, and attended movies alone not infrequently, I can't recall a single occasion when someone looked at me funny, or asked me why I was there alone, nor would my friends ask "who'd you go with?". If the topic of drinking alone comes up, there is always a warning or admonishment.
SyzygistSix 5y ago
That doesn't surprise me. Going against cultural mores and breaking taboos has a long tradition among gnostics and explorers of our internal landscape. It's not a safe and stable life path but it can certainly be rewarding.

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pelagicAustral 5y ago

- From "Social and Cultural Aspects of Drinking" [0]: "The most important of these cross-cultural constants in the social norms governing alcohol use is the near-universal taboo on solitary drinking. The fact that drinking is, in almost all cultures, essentially a social act, is recognised throughout the anthropological literature, and ethnographic data from a wide range of cultures indicate that solitary drinking is at the very least ‘negatively evaluated’, and often specifically proscribed." - Drinking and masculinity in everyday Swedish culture [1]: ""Drinking alone should not be done. To drink alone is to be anti-social (by not wanting to share); it is commonly thought to be an indication of alcoholism. And alcoholism is shameful: to be labelled an alcoholic is a condemnation beyond words…"" - Also touching solo-drinking: "America Has a Drinking Problem" [2]: "He and his onetime graduate student Kasey Creswell, a Carnegie Mellon professor who studies solitary drinking, have come to believe that one key to understanding drinking’s uneven effects may be the presence of other people. Having combed through decades’ worth of literature, Creswell reports that in the rare experiments that have compared social and solitary alcohol use, drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." - Pandemic related, "When Drinking Alone Becomes A Problem" (2021) [3] - From Kasey Creswell, "Drinking Together and Drinking Alone: A Social-Contextual Framework for Examining Risk for Alcohol Use Disorder " [4] "The context in which drinking occurs is a critical but relatively understudied factor in alcohol use disorder (AUD) etiology. In this article, I offer a social-contextual framework for examining AUD risk by reviewing studies on the unique antecedents and deleterious consequences of social compared with solitary alcohol use in adolescents and young adults." --- [0] http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html [1] https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9780203031803-12/drinking-masculinity-everyday-swedish-culture-gunilla-bjer%C3%A9n https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97802030... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america-drinking-alone-problem/619017/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america... [3] https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/news/2021/creswell-aud.html https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/news/2021/creswell-a... [4] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0963721420969406?journalCode=cdpa https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/096372142096940...

akprasad 5y ago
Thank you! I think the first is where I first read it.
TigeriusKirk 5y ago
"drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." I wonder how much of this is "set and setting", something that is well known with other drugs. Maybe people tend toward depression when they drink alone because that's what they expect to happen?
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  > "drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink." Never been the case for me, even when I used to do it a bit too often.
- taneq 5y ago
  Maybe people with depression tend towards drinking alone?
  - JohnBooty 5y ago
    I have zero problems agreeing that drinking alone because one is sad is potentially a very, very, bad habit that in a worst-case scenario can lead to full-blown alcoholism. Yeah, I have to wonder if people are seriously mixing up correlation and causation. I think the danger (or lack thereof) of solo drinking is highly dependent on a person's reasons for drinking. I like to get mildly drunk, alone, perhaps... an average of once per month? I've been doing this for about 20 years with no increase in frequency. The key is, I only do this when I'm happy. It's like a little celebration. For whatever reason, I do not desire alcohol when I'm feeling down. The thought of alcohol's effects seems repugnant to me at those times.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  The joy and euphoria aren't a result of the presence of people. They're effects of the drug. Whatever asshole wrote this would probably say the same thing about being sober alone.

theNJR 5y ago

Was it this Atlantic article? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america-drinking-alone-problem/619017/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america...

akprasad 5y ago
This looks like a great article, but I believe I first saw it here (& thanks to pelagicAustral for finding it): http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html And there's some related HN discussion on the article here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17488786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17488786
nicbou 5y ago
That's certainly the one I had on my mind, but I'm another user.

version_five 5y ago

I think being a loner is generally seen as unusual though isn't it? I enjoy drinking alone, exercising alone, traveling alone, sitting alone, working alone. I don't really think I'm that weird by objective standards, there are also things I like doing with people (I'm married and have a family), but as a sometimes introvert, I definitely value time alone, including relaxing with a beer. Related, when I went to university, I lived in residence and i remember sitting by myself at meals and having people come and basically think they were doing me a favor talking to me, because only a loser would want to sit by himself. I found it both annoying (because I wanted to be alone) and condescending (because people see you alone and come talk to you like you must have no friends) - all that to say, society seems to look at you funny if you enjoy being by yourself, so I wouldn't read too much into sllo drinking being shunned specifically.

ameminator 5y ago
As a fellow loner, who agrees with the majority of what you just said - let's not meet.
- taneq 5y ago
  "One of my best friends. We still sometimes never talk."
Aloha 5y ago
No one shuns reading alone, listening to music alone, or watching a movie alone. Drinking alone is more dangerous than drinking with friends.
- rzzzt 5y ago
  Watching a movie alone in the comfort of your own home? I get that. Going to the cinema alone? Definitely shunned.
  - Aloha 5y ago
    Depends on the circumstance, I used to travel for a living, and attended movies alone not infrequently, I can't recall a single occasion when someone looked at me funny, or asked me why I was there alone, nor would my friends ask "who'd you go with?". If the topic of drinking alone comes up, there is always a warning or admonishment.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

That doesn't surprise me. Going against cultural mores and breaking taboos has a long tradition among gnostics and explorers of our internal landscape. It's not a safe and stable life path but it can certainly be rewarding.