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I agree that this is emblematic of Tesla's terrible QC, but your second point about how traditional auto dealerships would mitigate it strikes me as questionabl

I agree that this is emblematic of Tesla's terrible QC, but your second point about how traditional auto dealerships would mitigate it strikes me as questionable. Being sold a "lemon" has been possible for years, even with the traditional dealership model; that's why so many US states have "lemon laws" specifically to deal with that scenario.

serf 5y ago
I did pre-delivery inspections on vehicles for many years at an automotive dealership. one of the numerous things I had to do was test drive every single vehicle. Yes a dealership would have caught this issue before the customer -- absolutely.
jacquesm 5y ago
Yes, but a lemon is a car that is unreliable due to intermittent issues, not a missing part in a safety critical system that should have resulted in a 'stop the line, we have an excess brake pad at the end of our shift', followed by an inspection of all vehicles built on that shift and a serious upgrade of QA processes. Really, this stinks.
- ajross 5y ago
  > Yes, but a lemon is a car that is unreliable due to intermittent issues Actually it's a term of some precision, and that's not it. "Lemon" laws define the problem as a car with an inherent defect that can't be fixed by the manufacturer or dealer within some reasonable amount of time (often "three attempts", depending on statute). The purpose of the law is that consumers shouldn't be on the hook for expensive but faulty products. This isn't a lemon by any of those laws. They fixed the brakes and the car is fine now. It's fine to make pronouncements about Quality Culture or whatever, but lemon statutes aren't really at issue here.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > They fixed the brakes and the car is fine now. Did they? The latest status I get from the article is that the ETA was pushed back again to January 19.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      They've also quoted four different repair dates, three of which have passed. That sounds like "3 attempts" to me.
- shalmanese 5y ago
  Perhaps the reason why is because there's another Tesla driving around right now with two brake pads.
  - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
    In a disk brake setup (which is what this Tesla has) there is a caliper with slots for two brake pads on each wheel. So with 4 wheels that would be 8 break pads. The caliper squeezes the pads on both sides of the rotor (which is turns with the wheel) in order to slow down. This is why having one left over (or just an odd number left over) is a red flag. You can’t put two many in, there is no reasonable way to make that mistake, but you could leave one out, so it makes sense to check for that mistake.
- mark-r 5y ago
  This is why Toyota's Five Whys is so genius. Not only do you find out why there's an extra brake pad at the end of the shift, but you discover why you didn't catch it during the manufacturing process, and how it happened in the first place.
sharkweek 5y ago
Me and my partner bought our first brand new car (2017 Highlander for the curious) a few years ago after being a used car family for so long. Had a lot of mediocre service with used cars, but nothing to write a nasty online review about or anything. Gotta say, with the new car and its full warranty, we have felt like kings in comparison to past experience. Anytime we need any amount of maintenance we get an appointment and then whatever it is is fixed free of charge. Maybe we got lucky, but the dealership has definitely delivered on its promise of complete warranty coverage. I know many consider buying a new car some kind of financial cardinal sin, but I’m sold on it now.
- jsmith99 5y ago
  In the UK at least, most manufacturers let you buy an extended warranty for a few hundred pounds a year even if you bought the car second hand, so long as it's no more than 3-5 years old.
- kylehotchkiss 5y ago
  Definitely not a sin - you know that past you maintained the car at safe levels and you didn’t choose to cut corners. You didn’t let yourself spill coffee and soda all over the car. And you can keep it running well over 100,000 miles. And this might be the first car your future children drive!
- atdrummond 5y ago
  Right now the economics of the used car market are so poor that buying new is a better play, assuming you can find the vehicle you want.
  - metadat 5y ago
    Have you verified this personally? Out of curiosity (and fear), I looked up used 2007 Highlander this morning on SFBay Craigslist, and there was plenty of inventory and they looked like a reasonable bargain, around $6-10k for one with relatively low miles considering they are 16 years old. Maybe prices at dealerships are way up? Or people want newer cars and those are crazy expensive? I am certain my friend who just paid way too much for a newer used Toyota is a moron in such matters.
mdoms 5y ago
This has absolutely nothing to do with "lemon" vehicles which are vehicles that run into ongoing or repeated problems. This is one single issue that any mechanic worth his overalls can (and frequently does) solve in a 2 hour job (and that's assuming something goes wrong). Inability to supply and fit a part that is literally designed to wear out is unacceptable.
- mark-r 5y ago
  These cars are new enough that they haven't likely needed new brake pads. With regenerative braking, the pads don't get much use and they last a lot longer than you're used to. That would explain why the pads aren't an in-stock item.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    If all brake pads came in standard sizes, and Tesla didn't invent their own, that would solve the supply problem.
    - mark-r 5y ago
      Does Tesla have a big problem with Not-Invented-Here syndrome? They seem like the kind of place that would.
  - mdoms 5y ago
    Right, maybe their supply constraints are the reason they're fitting 7/8 of the pads to production vehicles.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Dealerships are both a completely separate legal entity from the manufacturer and they have a very strong interest in not handing over a defective car to the customer because they're closes to the customer. They are also required to conduct what's called a PDI - Pre Delivery Inspection - before the customer sees or touches the car. The car is prepped for sale, and this includes a number of things. Sometimes cars have spacers installed in the suspension. Someone plugs in a diagnostic tool and tells the car's control modules that the car is no longer being stored/shipped, so it can enable all the stuff slowly drains the battery like memory settings, keyless ignition RF transmission, alarm sensors, etc. There's also a cosmetic inspection, where any defects in the paint are taken care of by the dealer's in-house detailing/car prep staff. A big part of the PDI is going over everything safety related and making sure that nothing happened to the car as part of it being shipped. That includes a test-drive. Usually half an hour or so at a variety of speeds, where the test-driver makes sure every single part works. I assure you, the person doing the PDI would notice a missing brake pad, even if the dealership mechanic who does the mechanical PDI somehow missed "there's a brake pad completely missing."
- op00to 5y ago
  Lol at the paint defects being “taken care of” by the dealers “detailing” department. Also known as a filthy bucket with gritty sponge.

serf 5y ago

I did pre-delivery inspections on vehicles for many years at an automotive dealership. one of the numerous things I had to do was test drive every single vehicle. Yes a dealership would have caught this issue before the customer -- absolutely.

jacquesm 5y ago

Yes, but a lemon is a car that is unreliable due to intermittent issues, not a missing part in a safety critical system that should have resulted in a 'stop the line, we have an excess brake pad at the end of our shift', followed by an inspection of all vehicles built on that shift and a serious upgrade of QA processes. Really, this stinks.

ajross 5y ago
> Yes, but a lemon is a car that is unreliable due to intermittent issues Actually it's a term of some precision, and that's not it. "Lemon" laws define the problem as a car with an inherent defect that can't be fixed by the manufacturer or dealer within some reasonable amount of time (often "three attempts", depending on statute). The purpose of the law is that consumers shouldn't be on the hook for expensive but faulty products. This isn't a lemon by any of those laws. They fixed the brakes and the car is fine now. It's fine to make pronouncements about Quality Culture or whatever, but lemon statutes aren't really at issue here.
- pdonis 5y ago
  > They fixed the brakes and the car is fine now. Did they? The latest status I get from the article is that the ETA was pushed back again to January 19.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    They've also quoted four different repair dates, three of which have passed. That sounds like "3 attempts" to me.
shalmanese 5y ago
Perhaps the reason why is because there's another Tesla driving around right now with two brake pads.
- MobiusHorizons 5y ago
  In a disk brake setup (which is what this Tesla has) there is a caliper with slots for two brake pads on each wheel. So with 4 wheels that would be 8 break pads. The caliper squeezes the pads on both sides of the rotor (which is turns with the wheel) in order to slow down. This is why having one left over (or just an odd number left over) is a red flag. You can’t put two many in, there is no reasonable way to make that mistake, but you could leave one out, so it makes sense to check for that mistake.
mark-r 5y ago
This is why Toyota's Five Whys is so genius. Not only do you find out why there's an extra brake pad at the end of the shift, but you discover why you didn't catch it during the manufacturing process, and how it happened in the first place.

sharkweek 5y ago

Me and my partner bought our first brand new car (2017 Highlander for the curious) a few years ago after being a used car family for so long. Had a lot of mediocre service with used cars, but nothing to write a nasty online review about or anything. Gotta say, with the new car and its full warranty, we have felt like kings in comparison to past experience. Anytime we need any amount of maintenance we get an appointment and then whatever it is is fixed free of charge. Maybe we got lucky, but the dealership has definitely delivered on its promise of complete warranty coverage. I know many consider buying a new car some kind of financial cardinal sin, but I’m sold on it now.

jsmith99 5y ago
In the UK at least, most manufacturers let you buy an extended warranty for a few hundred pounds a year even if you bought the car second hand, so long as it's no more than 3-5 years old.
kylehotchkiss 5y ago
Definitely not a sin - you know that past you maintained the car at safe levels and you didn’t choose to cut corners. You didn’t let yourself spill coffee and soda all over the car. And you can keep it running well over 100,000 miles. And this might be the first car your future children drive!
atdrummond 5y ago
Right now the economics of the used car market are so poor that buying new is a better play, assuming you can find the vehicle you want.
- metadat 5y ago
  Have you verified this personally? Out of curiosity (and fear), I looked up used 2007 Highlander this morning on SFBay Craigslist, and there was plenty of inventory and they looked like a reasonable bargain, around $6-10k for one with relatively low miles considering they are 16 years old. Maybe prices at dealerships are way up? Or people want newer cars and those are crazy expensive? I am certain my friend who just paid way too much for a newer used Toyota is a moron in such matters.

mdoms 5y ago

This has absolutely nothing to do with "lemon" vehicles which are vehicles that run into ongoing or repeated problems. This is one single issue that any mechanic worth his overalls can (and frequently does) solve in a 2 hour job (and that's assuming something goes wrong). Inability to supply and fit a part that is literally designed to wear out is unacceptable.

mark-r 5y ago
These cars are new enough that they haven't likely needed new brake pads. With regenerative braking, the pads don't get much use and they last a lot longer than you're used to. That would explain why the pads aren't an in-stock item.
- userbinator 5y ago
  If all brake pads came in standard sizes, and Tesla didn't invent their own, that would solve the supply problem.
  - mark-r 5y ago
    Does Tesla have a big problem with Not-Invented-Here syndrome? They seem like the kind of place that would.
- mdoms 5y ago
  Right, maybe their supply constraints are the reason they're fitting 7/8 of the pads to production vehicles.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Dealerships are both a completely separate legal entity from the manufacturer and they have a very strong interest in not handing over a defective car to the customer because they're closes to the customer. They are also required to conduct what's called a PDI - Pre Delivery Inspection - before the customer sees or touches the car. The car is prepped for sale, and this includes a number of things. Sometimes cars have spacers installed in the suspension. Someone plugs in a diagnostic tool and tells the car's control modules that the car is no longer being stored/shipped, so it can enable all the stuff slowly drains the battery like memory settings, keyless ignition RF transmission, alarm sensors, etc. There's also a cosmetic inspection, where any defects in the paint are taken care of by the dealer's in-house detailing/car prep staff. A big part of the PDI is going over everything safety related and making sure that nothing happened to the car as part of it being shipped. That includes a test-drive. Usually half an hour or so at a variety of speeds, where the test-driver makes sure every single part works. I assure you, the person doing the PDI would notice a missing brake pad, even if the dealership mechanic who does the mechanical PDI somehow missed "there's a brake pad completely missing."

op00to 5y ago
Lol at the paint defects being “taken care of” by the dealers “detailing” department. Also known as a filthy bucket with gritty sponge.