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If you're sincerely confused, here are some reasons people avoid them: - https://blog.codinghorror.com/todont/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/todont/ - https:/

If you're sincerely confused, here are some reasons people avoid them: - https://blog.codinghorror.com/todont/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/todont/ - https://hbr.org/2012/01/to-do-lists-dont-work https://hbr.org/2012/01/to-do-lists-dont-work - https://blog.frantic.im/all/todo-apps-are-meant-for-robots/ https://blog.frantic.im/all/todo-apps-are-meant-for-robots/ I also saw a recent HN comment that todo lists are basically suitable only for low-level ICs and that the truly successful don't use them. I wondered if that was really true and, well, here we are. [edit]: I think there's also an issue that people can't self-regulate very well, so when they fail, they blame whatever system they use. So I wanted a clear signpost I could point to make it utterly clear that successful people do use these things (and, therefore, that any misgivings have other roots).

yeetaccount4 5y ago
A lot of the criticisms I’m seeing here are how you approach your todo list. If you look at it as a script for your whole life of course it’s going to fail, you’ll spend more time setting it up and consulting it than doing anything with it, and it’ll quickly get swamped with irrelevant details. If you use it as a ‘living document’ that jogs your memory for what needs to get done it’s going to work out better. Often times just putting something on paper helps organize your thoughts around something and commit it to memory.
a_shovel 5y ago
Wow, the first article is just awful. He's not even saying that to-do lists don't help. He's saying that if they do help you, you're broken. Congratulations on having never forgotten something important, I guess? I apologize for being a mere mortal who gets distracted and forgets things sometimes.
- jrs235 5y ago
  Problem is, author likely hand waves your concern away. If it was truly that important you wouldn't have forgotten it. :vomit:
- low_tech_love 5y ago
  It’s a part of the “everything you do must be awesome” movement. They forget that most people have a job and a personal life to take care of. Ticking items in a todo list is perfectly fine. Also I had a feeling their main argument is that they’re getting overwhelmed by the list itself. I guess it can be a problem, but the solution is to learn to let your list go sometimes. You must re-assess it regularly.
  - Izkata 5y ago
    > Also I had a feeling their main argument is that they’re getting overwhelmed by the list itself. I guess it can be a problem, but the solution is to learn to let your list go sometimes. Yeah, near the end: > Here's my challenge. If you can't wake up every day and, using your 100% original equipment God-given organic brain, come up with the three most important things you need to do that day – then you should seriously work on fixing that. I don't mean install another app, or read more productivity blogs and books. You have to figure out what's important to you and what motivates you; ask yourself why that stuff isn't gnawing at you enough to make you get it done. Fix that. He's kinda indirectly saying you should have a daily to-do list, started anew instead of ever-growing, just avoiding using the term "to-do list". Amusing little aside, I use "to-do list" instead of "todo list" because I can't help read it as the Spanish "todo", which would translate to "everything list". That would be too overwhelming a list.
    - low_tech_love 5y ago
      That quote is the perfect definition of "everything you do must be awesome".
- kstrauser 5y ago
  Guess I’m broken. Fortunately, because I have a good to-do list, I can brute force my way through the brokenness and actually be productive. I envy people who can remember all their obligations with storing them somewhere. I am not one of those people.
- noodleman 5y ago
  Articles like this leave me wondering how they really live their lives. I don't know if I smell BS but most people who use todo lists aren't todo-ing their whole day, nor wasting time adding things to it they never do. I've also never felt the need to download multiple apps. My calendar app works for long-term and paper & pen can handle the rest.
astrobe_ 5y ago
I think the articles you link are mistaken and that OP is correct. This is quote from one of them says it all: "I've tried to maintain to-do lists at various points in my life." Of course don't do that. Todolists are there to help you remember things, not to be "maintained" or to provide you with a sense of "achievement" or whatnot. They are basically the same thing as a shopping list. Nothing more, nothing less. The first step to actually use a todolist is not to use fancy Todolist apps. Just use Notepad or whatever simple text editor that can do cut/paste.
- akprasad 5y ago
  I completely agree (I'm the post author). I found a simple text file works well for me. I think what's most important is that I can get in the habit of using it every day. Most else is just window-dressing.
  - astrobe_ 5y ago
    I use them at work, I have the habit of looking at my todolist when I have nothing to do, or to decide what to do next. Actually we use a ticket system that could act as a todolist, but it's a mess for "local" reasons. This remembers me that tickets systems are just glorified todolists - and maybe they suffer from the same feature bloat as todolist apps. Although I acknowledge ticket systems are team tools, so it is a whole different game.
- low_tech_love 5y ago
  Yes, and learn to let the list go sometimes. Re-assess it, toss it away and make another one, etc. It’s much better to consciously ignore/forget about some tasks (because they have become unimportant) than to unwillingly forget something important.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    That's why I don't like them having a 'done' column (or bucket, state, whatever) - they should be at most archived, if not just outright deleted, IMO. Just to-do, maybe optionally doing, and gone. Gone for whatever reason. And then you're never tempted to play the silly game of 'add task I already did so that I can tick it off'.
jnurmine 5y ago
Everyone has their own way to be effective and productive, my opinion follows. TODO-lists are useful when using them for what they are good for: 1. mini-planning the upcoming work, 2. tracking what you've done (the ticked boxes), and 3. tracking what needs to be done to complete the main task (the unticked boxes). Putting this information into the calendar? No, totally wrong place. Using some app? Clumsy and annoying and easy to get distracted... but sure, if it works for you. I'd say just use a text file with whatever format is OK for you. Or pen + paper. I have TODO-lists with tasks with a time-span of a few weeks to many-a-day subtasks that I plan ahead of time so I know what to do next. In my opinion, that's the important part: knowing what to do next. If you don't know what to do next, you have to stop to figure this out. Hence the TODO-lists. Besides, for me, this switching of mode from executing to planning/analyzing breaks the flow of the task I was doing. I have to go into another kind of mind-state. So I try to plan ahead and then just execute, it's easier and more fun to just keep the flow going for a longer time. Usually my subtask planning for things I'm familiar with is more tactical and I just throw it in as I go (I'm used to this now), but for unfamiliar things I have to stop and analyze things up front. Of course situations change and then I just go back and modify the tasks and plans. But at some point, a clear path forward emerges. Then I take it.
amiircoal 5y ago
These common reasons listed in these types of articles do not support the conclusion that todo lists don’t work. They are a list of some common challenges when working with todo lists. But what working method doesn’t have challenges? I could compose a list of various challenges of working from home. It does not mean working from home, “doesn’t work”.
- akprasad 5y ago
  I completely agree! And I myself use a to-do list. I mention these just to illustrate why some might disagree that to-do lists are obvious.
lostlogin 5y ago
The article uses Da Vinci and Musk as examples, and they had some success. That said, “assess a corpse using his finger as a unit of measurement.” Was a to-do item.
desmosxxx 5y ago
>> I also saw a recent HN comment that todo lists are basically suitable only for low-level ICs and that the truly successful don't use them. I wondered if that was really true and, well, here we are. Would love the link if you can find it. I know around ~10 very successful people (high net worth business owners / C level positions), including some close family members, and they all use TODOs / notes extensively in their personal life and at work. Some have personal assistants that serve a similar function (and they rely heavily on them). We had a joke for one of them that he makes notes to look at other notes (based somewhat in reality - it was a fridge note to look at the longer note on his desk). Many of the older ones have a daily journal where they copy / delete uncompleted tasks to the next day I can't imagine any of them functioning without a TODO system. They do also heavily use calanders and sometimes the TODO lists and calendars blend together, but it's not a mutually exclusive thing like the original post's links would leave one to believe. The last article you link is the only one that makes some good points IMO and it's more of an argument for an even better task list if anything.
Zababa 5y ago
From the first article: > Here's my challenge. If you can't wake up every day and, using your 100% original equipment God-given organic brain, come up with the three most important things you need to do that day – then you should seriously work on fixing that. I don't mean install another app, or read more productivity blogs and books. You have to figure out what's important to you and what motivates you; ask yourself why that stuff isn't gnawing at you enough to make you get it done. Fix that. I think most people don't have the money to go on a years-long soul searching trip while getting nothing done in the meantime. I dislike that trend of saying "you aren't a perfectly functionning human? Time to go on therapy and focus on self-improvement for a few years". I work with half-broken systems all the time, I'm one of those. And it works! I'm able to do stuff, be kinda productive at work, spend good time with family and friends, and even find a bit of time to work on myself to get better.

yeetaccount4 5y ago

A lot of the criticisms I’m seeing here are how you approach your todo list. If you look at it as a script for your whole life of course it’s going to fail, you’ll spend more time setting it up and consulting it than doing anything with it, and it’ll quickly get swamped with irrelevant details. If you use it as a ‘living document’ that jogs your memory for what needs to get done it’s going to work out better. Often times just putting something on paper helps organize your thoughts around something and commit it to memory.

a_shovel 5y ago

Wow, the first article is just awful. He's not even saying that to-do lists don't help. He's saying that if they do help you, you're broken. Congratulations on having never forgotten something important, I guess? I apologize for being a mere mortal who gets distracted and forgets things sometimes.

jrs235 5y ago
Problem is, author likely hand waves your concern away. If it was truly that important you wouldn't have forgotten it. :vomit:
low_tech_love 5y ago
It’s a part of the “everything you do must be awesome” movement. They forget that most people have a job and a personal life to take care of. Ticking items in a todo list is perfectly fine. Also I had a feeling their main argument is that they’re getting overwhelmed by the list itself. I guess it can be a problem, but the solution is to learn to let your list go sometimes. You must re-assess it regularly.
- Izkata 5y ago
  > Also I had a feeling their main argument is that they’re getting overwhelmed by the list itself. I guess it can be a problem, but the solution is to learn to let your list go sometimes. Yeah, near the end: > Here's my challenge. If you can't wake up every day and, using your 100% original equipment God-given organic brain, come up with the three most important things you need to do that day – then you should seriously work on fixing that. I don't mean install another app, or read more productivity blogs and books. You have to figure out what's important to you and what motivates you; ask yourself why that stuff isn't gnawing at you enough to make you get it done. Fix that. He's kinda indirectly saying you should have a daily to-do list, started anew instead of ever-growing, just avoiding using the term "to-do list". Amusing little aside, I use "to-do list" instead of "todo list" because I can't help read it as the Spanish "todo", which would translate to "everything list". That would be too overwhelming a list.
  - low_tech_love 5y ago
    That quote is the perfect definition of "everything you do must be awesome".
kstrauser 5y ago
Guess I’m broken. Fortunately, because I have a good to-do list, I can brute force my way through the brokenness and actually be productive. I envy people who can remember all their obligations with storing them somewhere. I am not one of those people.
noodleman 5y ago
Articles like this leave me wondering how they really live their lives. I don't know if I smell BS but most people who use todo lists aren't todo-ing their whole day, nor wasting time adding things to it they never do. I've also never felt the need to download multiple apps. My calendar app works for long-term and paper & pen can handle the rest.

astrobe_ 5y ago

I think the articles you link are mistaken and that OP is correct. This is quote from one of them says it all: "I've tried to maintain to-do lists at various points in my life." Of course don't do that. Todolists are there to help you remember things, not to be "maintained" or to provide you with a sense of "achievement" or whatnot. They are basically the same thing as a shopping list. Nothing more, nothing less. The first step to actually use a todolist is not to use fancy Todolist apps. Just use Notepad or whatever simple text editor that can do cut/paste.

akprasad 5y ago
I completely agree (I'm the post author). I found a simple text file works well for me. I think what's most important is that I can get in the habit of using it every day. Most else is just window-dressing.
- astrobe_ 5y ago
  I use them at work, I have the habit of looking at my todolist when I have nothing to do, or to decide what to do next. Actually we use a ticket system that could act as a todolist, but it's a mess for "local" reasons. This remembers me that tickets systems are just glorified todolists - and maybe they suffer from the same feature bloat as todolist apps. Although I acknowledge ticket systems are team tools, so it is a whole different game.
low_tech_love 5y ago
Yes, and learn to let the list go sometimes. Re-assess it, toss it away and make another one, etc. It’s much better to consciously ignore/forget about some tasks (because they have become unimportant) than to unwillingly forget something important.
- OJFord 5y ago
  That's why I don't like them having a 'done' column (or bucket, state, whatever) - they should be at most archived, if not just outright deleted, IMO. Just to-do, maybe optionally doing, and gone. Gone for whatever reason. And then you're never tempted to play the silly game of 'add task I already did so that I can tick it off'.

jnurmine 5y ago

Everyone has their own way to be effective and productive, my opinion follows. TODO-lists are useful when using them for what they are good for: 1. mini-planning the upcoming work, 2. tracking what you've done (the ticked boxes), and 3. tracking what needs to be done to complete the main task (the unticked boxes). Putting this information into the calendar? No, totally wrong place. Using some app? Clumsy and annoying and easy to get distracted... but sure, if it works for you. I'd say just use a text file with whatever format is OK for you. Or pen + paper. I have TODO-lists with tasks with a time-span of a few weeks to many-a-day subtasks that I plan ahead of time so I know what to do next. In my opinion, that's the important part: knowing what to do next. If you don't know what to do next, you have to stop to figure this out. Hence the TODO-lists. Besides, for me, this switching of mode from executing to planning/analyzing breaks the flow of the task I was doing. I have to go into another kind of mind-state. So I try to plan ahead and then just execute, it's easier and more fun to just keep the flow going for a longer time. Usually my subtask planning for things I'm familiar with is more tactical and I just throw it in as I go (I'm used to this now), but for unfamiliar things I have to stop and analyze things up front. Of course situations change and then I just go back and modify the tasks and plans. But at some point, a clear path forward emerges. Then I take it.

amiircoal 5y ago

These common reasons listed in these types of articles do not support the conclusion that todo lists don’t work. They are a list of some common challenges when working with todo lists. But what working method doesn’t have challenges? I could compose a list of various challenges of working from home. It does not mean working from home, “doesn’t work”.

akprasad 5y ago
I completely agree! And I myself use a to-do list. I mention these just to illustrate why some might disagree that to-do lists are obvious.

lostlogin 5y ago

The article uses Da Vinci and Musk as examples, and they had some success. That said, “assess a corpse using his finger as a unit of measurement.” Was a to-do item.

desmosxxx 5y ago

>> I also saw a recent HN comment that todo lists are basically suitable only for low-level ICs and that the truly successful don't use them. I wondered if that was really true and, well, here we are. Would love the link if you can find it. I know around ~10 very successful people (high net worth business owners / C level positions), including some close family members, and they all use TODOs / notes extensively in their personal life and at work. Some have personal assistants that serve a similar function (and they rely heavily on them). We had a joke for one of them that he makes notes to look at other notes (based somewhat in reality - it was a fridge note to look at the longer note on his desk). Many of the older ones have a daily journal where they copy / delete uncompleted tasks to the next day I can't imagine any of them functioning without a TODO system. They do also heavily use calanders and sometimes the TODO lists and calendars blend together, but it's not a mutually exclusive thing like the original post's links would leave one to believe. The last article you link is the only one that makes some good points IMO and it's more of an argument for an even better task list if anything.

Zababa 5y ago

From the first article: > Here's my challenge. If you can't wake up every day and, using your 100% original equipment God-given organic brain, come up with the three most important things you need to do that day – then you should seriously work on fixing that. I don't mean install another app, or read more productivity blogs and books. You have to figure out what's important to you and what motivates you; ask yourself why that stuff isn't gnawing at you enough to make you get it done. Fix that. I think most people don't have the money to go on a years-long soul searching trip while getting nothing done in the meantime. I dislike that trend of saying "you aren't a perfectly functionning human? Time to go on therapy and focus on self-improvement for a few years". I work with half-broken systems all the time, I'm one of those. And it works! I'm able to do stuff, be kinda productive at work, spend good time with family and friends, and even find a bit of time to work on myself to get better.