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Surely the loss of income from selling their energy would be too great. Any interruption to supply would destroy confidence in supply for the future. They would

by Neil44 5y ago

Surely the loss of income from selling their energy would be too great. Any interruption to supply would destroy confidence in supply for the future. They would be better off defining a limited area for the conflict, similar to for example the Falkland islands conflict. There was a defined zone for conflict not a general all out war.

azinman2 5y ago
Germany needs natural gas. Russia has it. Saudi’s Arabia’s values are in direct opposition to everything America values. Yet look at the relationship. They can even kill a US citizen journalist and get away with it.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post and lived in the US sometimes but he wasn’t a US citizen.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - azinman2 5y ago
    You're right.. he was a resident under an O visa.
- Neil44 5y ago
  Of course we all need it, but I am convinced that half the reason we are all pumping so much money into solar, wind, heat pumps etc is to reduce the dependency. Russian would still be crazy to kill that golden goose any sooner than it has to.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    If a country like Germany merely wanted to reduce their dependency on Russia, they'd frack. They have like 2 trillion cubic meters of gas down there. They have elected not to use it.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  > Saudi’s Arabia’s values are in direct opposition to everything America values Minor correction: to everything America says that it values. Actions speak a lot louder than words, and the rest of the world doesn't believe anything America says any more. Torture camps, mass surveillance, economic espionage, illegal wars - you know all this. And if you think that's just American leaders, I suggest you try making up a fictional country and asking Americas if you think they need to be bombed. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-v... Not flaming. Just keeping things real here.
threeseed 5y ago
There is not going to be a general all out war. Ukraine is not part of NATO and US/EU have no interest in fighting. Instead the most severe set of financial sanctions, possibly ever seen, will be implemented e.g. disconnecting Russian banks from SWIFT. And we saw in Iran these measures do work to severely harm the economy.
tialaramex 5y ago
However, if you have a potential weapon and you decline to use it because having done so it will be expended and useless to you, you also need to consider that it might become obsolete and thus anyway useless despite going unused. Over time Europe intends to move to more renewable sources, not only for electricity generation and heating, but in industry too. So the value of this bargaining chip may be reduced over time. Anticipating the future is difficult. But it seems unlikely that Germany will become even more dependant on Russian gas in say, 2032 than today, so, this seems like as good a time as ever to threaten.

by Neil44 5y ago

azinman2 5y ago

Germany needs natural gas. Russia has it. Saudi’s Arabia’s values are in direct opposition to everything America values. Yet look at the relationship. They can even kill a US citizen journalist and get away with it.

reducesuffering 5y ago
Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post and lived in the US sometimes but he wasn’t a US citizen.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- azinman2 5y ago
  You're right.. he was a resident under an O visa.
Neil44 5y ago
Of course we all need it, but I am convinced that half the reason we are all pumping so much money into solar, wind, heat pumps etc is to reduce the dependency. Russian would still be crazy to kill that golden goose any sooner than it has to.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  If a country like Germany merely wanted to reduce their dependency on Russia, they'd frack. They have like 2 trillion cubic meters of gas down there. They have elected not to use it.
mandmandam 5y ago
> Saudi’s Arabia’s values are in direct opposition to everything America values Minor correction: to everything America says that it values. Actions speak a lot louder than words, and the rest of the world doesn't believe anything America says any more. Torture camps, mass surveillance, economic espionage, illegal wars - you know all this. And if you think that's just American leaders, I suggest you try making up a fictional country and asking Americas if you think they need to be bombed. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-v... Not flaming. Just keeping things real here.

threeseed 5y ago

There is not going to be a general all out war. Ukraine is not part of NATO and US/EU have no interest in fighting. Instead the most severe set of financial sanctions, possibly ever seen, will be implemented e.g. disconnecting Russian banks from SWIFT. And we saw in Iran these measures do work to severely harm the economy.

tialaramex 5y ago

However, if you have a potential weapon and you decline to use it because having done so it will be expended and useless to you, you also need to consider that it might become obsolete and thus anyway useless despite going unused. Over time Europe intends to move to more renewable sources, not only for electricity generation and heating, but in industry too. So the value of this bargaining chip may be reduced over time. Anticipating the future is difficult. But it seems unlikely that Germany will become even more dependant on Russian gas in say, 2032 than today, so, this seems like as good a time as ever to threaten.