3 ms·

I have always heard that currency devaluation was a large factor in the fall of the Western empire, but Professor Devereaux doesn't mention it at all. I also d

by chasil 5y ago

I have always heard that currency devaluation was a large factor in the fall of the Western empire, but Professor Devereaux doesn't mention it at all. I also did not realize that Alaric lived within the borders of the Western empire, as an independent king. I can see how that would be problematic.

jcranmer 5y ago
Economic factors are to come in part III, and currency devaluation would be economic in nature.
jabl 5y ago
I vaguely recall from reading Tainter's book (the bible of collapse porn, amirite?) that currency devaluation was more a consequence rather than a cause. That is, the Roman emperors where trying to save the collapsing house of cards by debasing the currency in order to pay for the expenses of maintaining the empire. Of course, Tainter's whole schtick was that worsening, and eventually negative, marginal returns to increase in complexity is the explanation for why ancient civilizations collapsed, but anyhow, his argument is, at least to a layperson like yours truly, somewhat convincing.
littlestymaar 5y ago
> I have always heard that currency devaluation was a large factor in the fall of the Western empire Interesting, I never heard that before. Out of curiosity, did you learn about it in history class or somewhere else?
- chasil 5y ago
  I think the first I heard of it was my Western Civilization college course.
- ssl232 5y ago
  (Not OP) I first read about this in The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous, the first 2/3rds of which, incidentally, is a history of (in his view) bad money. There he writes how the value of the gold (aureus) and silver (denarius) coins in circulation then was gradually eroded by clipping and debasing the precious metal content in the years leading up to the collapse and he supposes that this had a significant impact on the collapse of the economy and then the empire itself. He links coin debasement to food shortages, as market prices rise to compensate for debased currency. Price caps set by the Roman government stop food producers from being able to adequately profit from their labour, so food shortages occur, then civil strife and eventually collapse.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > gradually eroded by clipping and debasing the precious metal content in the years leading up to the collapse I mean... that's kind of true... if your definition of the years leading up to the collapse start around 50AD. Roman currency was constantly debased from Nero to Diocletian (by Diocletian, there was almost no silver in the coins at all). Diocletian reformed this, then it started again. About 200 years later the Western Empire fell. It feels like a stretch, honestly.
boomboomsubban 5y ago
Keep in mind that this is just one of a series of articles on a subject that takes books to cover. Currency wouldn't really fall under the "words" covered today, but more likely next weeks organizations.

by chasil 5y ago

jcranmer 5y ago

Economic factors are to come in part III, and currency devaluation would be economic in nature.

jabl 5y ago

I vaguely recall from reading Tainter's book (the bible of collapse porn, amirite?) that currency devaluation was more a consequence rather than a cause. That is, the Roman emperors where trying to save the collapsing house of cards by debasing the currency in order to pay for the expenses of maintaining the empire. Of course, Tainter's whole schtick was that worsening, and eventually negative, marginal returns to increase in complexity is the explanation for why ancient civilizations collapsed, but anyhow, his argument is, at least to a layperson like yours truly, somewhat convincing.

littlestymaar 5y ago

> I have always heard that currency devaluation was a large factor in the fall of the Western empire Interesting, I never heard that before. Out of curiosity, did you learn about it in history class or somewhere else?

chasil 5y ago
I think the first I heard of it was my Western Civilization college course.
ssl232 5y ago
(Not OP) I first read about this in The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous, the first 2/3rds of which, incidentally, is a history of (in his view) bad money. There he writes how the value of the gold (aureus) and silver (denarius) coins in circulation then was gradually eroded by clipping and debasing the precious metal content in the years leading up to the collapse and he supposes that this had a significant impact on the collapse of the economy and then the empire itself. He links coin debasement to food shortages, as market prices rise to compensate for debased currency. Price caps set by the Roman government stop food producers from being able to adequately profit from their labour, so food shortages occur, then civil strife and eventually collapse.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > gradually eroded by clipping and debasing the precious metal content in the years leading up to the collapse I mean... that's kind of true... if your definition of the years leading up to the collapse start around 50AD. Roman currency was constantly debased from Nero to Diocletian (by Diocletian, there was almost no silver in the coins at all). Diocletian reformed this, then it started again. About 200 years later the Western Empire fell. It feels like a stretch, honestly.

boomboomsubban 5y ago

Keep in mind that this is just one of a series of articles on a subject that takes books to cover. Currency wouldn't really fall under the "words" covered today, but more likely next weeks organizations.