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That's the low end of the market basically. It's no different than picking up a cheap compact camera a few decades ago. I had one (a Kodak) and I knew absolutel

That's the low end of the market basically. It's no different than picking up a cheap compact camera a few decades ago. I had one (a Kodak) and I knew absolutely nothing about photography. Point, click, bring the film roll to the store, and whatever you got back was it. Not very different from giving full control to Apple/Google over the creative outcome. And they do a decent job of course. They do some amazing things with the very limited sensors and lenses that these cameras have. But there are limits to that of course. Pro cameras start at a few thousand dollars. Clearly not for everyone but they always were that expensive. And that's before you consider the lenses. The type of person that spends 2000 dollar on a lens that only works in very specific situations is never going to be satisfied by an iphone. Most amateurs with ambition fall into the pro-sumer segment that yearn for more than a cheap lens + sensor in a mobile phone can give you but are not necessarily interested in spending thousands of dollars on their hobby. There are plenty of options for those people. I bought a Fuji X-T30 in 2020; a typical entry level camera for people that like to have some level of control over the whole photo taking process. It was about the same price as an iphone and it definitely takes better photos if you know what you are doing (and probably even if you don't) because of basic physics. The lenses are bigger and better. Some of the lenses you can buy are actually way more expensive than a typical iphone. Also, the sensor is bigger. It's just more light and information being gathered before destructive post processing happens. And you have more control over the process. Not for everyone. But those people still exist.

coldtea 5y ago
>That's the low end of the market basically. It's no different than picking up a cheap compact camera a few decades ago. It's quite different, market-wise, as in that today that "end of the market" it's 80% smartphones, and the previous "low end of the market" for compacts is as good as dead (and even a big part of the enthusiasts that bought cheaper DSLRs in the 00s and 10s is now content with just a smartphone).
sudosysgen 5y ago
You don't have to spend anywhere near that money, though. When you're spending over 2000 dollars, you're at the point where you're either in a very niche category, or you're paying for convenience. At 600 dollars, you can get a full-frame Sony A7ii (used). At that point, you can get a 30$ adapter and use manual lenses, and you'll get a very competent collection from 24mm all the way to a 135mm 2.8 for an additional ~500$. This will last you forever, but you won't have any autofocus. If you want autofocus, you can spend 150$ on a used EF-E adapter, and buy a 50 1.8 for 100$, the venerable 80-200 2.8 for 400$ or so, and a normal zoom for 200-400$ (I got the Tamron 28-75 for 200$). At that point, you'll get essentially any image you could want, at a stellar quality, for 1500$ or so, with autofocus and image stabilization. Past that point, you're either trying to do something extremely specific, or paying for more convenience. The gear itself will outlast you if you don't do anything stupid with it, and you will get more image quality than you can ask for, and absolute and complete control over every step of the photographic process, for less than the price of an iPhone 13 Pro Max. And if in ten years you get tired of it, you can sell it for at least half the price you paid for it.
intrasight 5y ago
Last year, I was going to buy ~$800 camera. I upgraded my iPhone instead.
- SECProto 5y ago
  I spent <$800 on a DSLR back in 2014 or so, and it still takes better pictures in most situations than the newest iPhone/pixel.
  - erwincoumans 5y ago
    What percentage of pictures do you take using your DLSR versus your phone? For me, it turned less than 1% versus 99%.
    - spindle 5y ago
      Me too, and that's an important point ... but for the photos I put on my website and still look at later, the proportion is more like 50%.
    - SECProto 5y ago
      Approx 1% of photos taken is with the DSLR. But approx 20-25% of quality photos (i.e. those that I share or post) are from the dslr
    - randomdata 5y ago
      Nearly 80% of the photos that I have taken since 2011 have been on my mirrorless camera that I've only had for nine months. The phone wins when it is all you have and there is something extraordinary to capture, but it has never compelled me to put effort into taking photos like the camera has.
  - aparticulate 5y ago
    Better in the situations where you are lugging it around, forsight to change lenses etc. I was reminded of a photojournalist who took great shots with an early iPhone to North Korea https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2013/03/05/173499169/live-from-north-korea-an-instagram-feed https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2013/03/05/17349916... Fidelity doesn't matter that much.

coldtea 5y ago

>That's the low end of the market basically. It's no different than picking up a cheap compact camera a few decades ago. It's quite different, market-wise, as in that today that "end of the market" it's 80% smartphones, and the previous "low end of the market" for compacts is as good as dead (and even a big part of the enthusiasts that bought cheaper DSLRs in the 00s and 10s is now content with just a smartphone).

sudosysgen 5y ago

You don't have to spend anywhere near that money, though. When you're spending over 2000 dollars, you're at the point where you're either in a very niche category, or you're paying for convenience. At 600 dollars, you can get a full-frame Sony A7ii (used). At that point, you can get a 30$ adapter and use manual lenses, and you'll get a very competent collection from 24mm all the way to a 135mm 2.8 for an additional ~500$. This will last you forever, but you won't have any autofocus. If you want autofocus, you can spend 150$ on a used EF-E adapter, and buy a 50 1.8 for 100$, the venerable 80-200 2.8 for 400$ or so, and a normal zoom for 200-400$ (I got the Tamron 28-75 for 200$). At that point, you'll get essentially any image you could want, at a stellar quality, for 1500$ or so, with autofocus and image stabilization. Past that point, you're either trying to do something extremely specific, or paying for more convenience. The gear itself will outlast you if you don't do anything stupid with it, and you will get more image quality than you can ask for, and absolute and complete control over every step of the photographic process, for less than the price of an iPhone 13 Pro Max. And if in ten years you get tired of it, you can sell it for at least half the price you paid for it.

intrasight 5y ago

Last year, I was going to buy ~$800 camera. I upgraded my iPhone instead.

SECProto 5y ago
I spent <$800 on a DSLR back in 2014 or so, and it still takes better pictures in most situations than the newest iPhone/pixel.
- erwincoumans 5y ago
  What percentage of pictures do you take using your DLSR versus your phone? For me, it turned less than 1% versus 99%.
  - spindle 5y ago
    Me too, and that's an important point ... but for the photos I put on my website and still look at later, the proportion is more like 50%.
  - SECProto 5y ago
    Approx 1% of photos taken is with the DSLR. But approx 20-25% of quality photos (i.e. those that I share or post) are from the dslr
  - randomdata 5y ago
    Nearly 80% of the photos that I have taken since 2011 have been on my mirrorless camera that I've only had for nine months. The phone wins when it is all you have and there is something extraordinary to capture, but it has never compelled me to put effort into taking photos like the camera has.
- aparticulate 5y ago
  Better in the situations where you are lugging it around, forsight to change lenses etc. I was reminded of a photojournalist who took great shots with an early iPhone to North Korea https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2013/03/05/173499169/live-from-north-korea-an-instagram-feed https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2013/03/05/17349916... Fidelity doesn't matter that much.