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This is bullshit. I have a full time job, a family and I've written a book in the past two years, and I still have time for side projects. Normally while commut

This is bullshit. I have a full time job, a family and I've written a book in the past two years, and I still have time for side projects. Normally while commuting on the train or in the evenings, but still... Pet projects are a good proxy for determining whether a developer can actually, you know, develop. Much better than asking trivial algorithm questions or getting someone to figure out a puzzle. They're also good fodder for interviews: * "Why did you go with this architecture/data structure/library instead of Y?" * "What's the next step in your roadmap?" * "Why would I use this?" / "Why did you start it?" / "What's different about this and project Y?". My fallback is to get them to provide a code sample "that they're proud of", which is not quite as good, but still indicative that they're still thinking about their craft. Hiring based purely on an in-person interview and a CV is incredibly risky - I've seen people who can talk a pretty good line, but write really obnoxious, poorly structured code. Perhaps think of it this way: A critical part of any developer's job is figuring out what tech is coming in the next couple of years, or which is available now and not being used, pushing the envelope of what's possible. Hence why the OP says "When you tell me that your only projects outside of work are 5+ years old, that is a bad indication..."

anthonyb 15y ago
Why the downvote? It is bullshit. This is the first stage in making yourself an obsolete COBOL developer - just say "I don't have time to keep up with the latest technologies." and twiddle your thumbs for 5 years. Lots of knee-jerk defensiveness on this thread.
- Confusion 15y ago
  The downvote because: - The first thing I think when I read "this is bullshit" is "fuck you, you are bullshit". You start by obliterating any chance for a constructive interaction - You are not actually engaging the arguments of the person you respond to. It seems you didn't get past his first three lines. - Not only does it seem like you didn't read the arguments, it also seems you cannot think of valid reasons why a decent programmer would not have pet projects. Otherwise your response would have been less vitriolic. - You are complaining about being downvoted ... by repeating the offensive assertion that probably got you downvoted in the first place and then poisoning the well by asserting that anyone that disagrees is engaging in 'knee-jerk defensiveness'. That's the second time I thought "fuck you", without even having considered what you actually wrote.
  - anthonyb 15y ago
    Pot, meet Kettle. You're judging me on the first word of my response, when the rest of it responds to his argument in detail. Here's another response. This time I've quoted what I'm replying to, to save you any more confusion: > Really, having or not having pet projects ... shouldn't matter [at] hiring time. You judge people on their ability as good as you can and what they do in their free time is simply none of your business. So, my choice is between a) someone who likes programming enough to have a personal project - code that you can see and ask questions about - and b) someone who claims to have been too busy raising a family or having a life to have done anything else but work, can't show you any code because it's either "none of your business", or so much of a drag that they can't bring themselves to do it outside of work hours. It's a no-brainer who I'm going to pick, and it's nothing to do with exploiting him.

anthonyb 15y ago

Why the downvote? It is bullshit. This is the first stage in making yourself an obsolete COBOL developer - just say "I don't have time to keep up with the latest technologies." and twiddle your thumbs for 5 years. Lots of knee-jerk defensiveness on this thread.

Confusion 15y ago
The downvote because: - The first thing I think when I read "this is bullshit" is "fuck you, you are bullshit". You start by obliterating any chance for a constructive interaction - You are not actually engaging the arguments of the person you respond to. It seems you didn't get past his first three lines. - Not only does it seem like you didn't read the arguments, it also seems you cannot think of valid reasons why a decent programmer would not have pet projects. Otherwise your response would have been less vitriolic. - You are complaining about being downvoted ... by repeating the offensive assertion that probably got you downvoted in the first place and then poisoning the well by asserting that anyone that disagrees is engaging in 'knee-jerk defensiveness'. That's the second time I thought "fuck you", without even having considered what you actually wrote.
- anthonyb 15y ago
  Pot, meet Kettle. You're judging me on the first word of my response, when the rest of it responds to his argument in detail. Here's another response. This time I've quoted what I'm replying to, to save you any more confusion: > Really, having or not having pet projects ... shouldn't matter [at] hiring time. You judge people on their ability as good as you can and what they do in their free time is simply none of your business. So, my choice is between a) someone who likes programming enough to have a personal project - code that you can see and ask questions about - and b) someone who claims to have been too busy raising a family or having a life to have done anything else but work, can't show you any code because it's either "none of your business", or so much of a drag that they can't bring themselves to do it outside of work hours. It's a no-brainer who I'm going to pick, and it's nothing to do with exploiting him.