5 ms·

I disagree. I find all artistry largely a selfish pursuit. Sure, a small percentage of artists touch others' souls, but mostly it's people trying to realize the

I disagree. I find all artistry largely a selfish pursuit. Sure, a small percentage of artists touch others' souls, but mostly it's people trying to realize their poorly conceived vision to the ultimate benefit of no one.

chottocharaii 5y ago
That is quite a pitifully narrow worldview
- halpert 5y ago
  Why do you think that? I have many friends who have aspired to be artists and musicians. They all do it out of a selfish desire to have others appreciate their work. For every one successful artist, there are tens of thousands of others that simply waste time and resources. If they weren't so enamored with themselves, they could create something that helps people or makes society better in some way. I truly feel that a life unsuccessfully dedicated to art is a life wasted.
  - bigyikes 5y ago
    Every artist I know enjoys making art. Time enjoyed is not time wasted.
  - j7ake 5y ago
    I agree it is a very competitive career, mostly a winner take all world, and require a certain audacity and ego to make it through. I would disagree that, just because a small percentage of them succeed, the artist path is a waste of resources. The small number of big successes over the history have more than made up for the majority of failures in art. Perhaps a more hacker news analogy is this: just because most start ups fail does not mean that pursuing start ups are a waste of resources. The competition creates a dialogue for people to tinker and figure out what really resonates with society.
    - halpert 5y ago
      Your viewpoint is at a more broad level than mine. I definitely think arts benefit society, which is in line with what you're saying. But at a human level, those who unsuccessfully pursue the arts suffer. With their most productive years spent unfruitfully, their late lives seem difficult. Often, they haven't saved anything for retirement and need to toil in menial labor until their bones crumble to dust. Especially later in life, providing for others, especially one's children, becomes increasingly important. I see a lot of my artist friends struggle emotionally because they don't have the means to give their children certain opportunities. Comparing musicians to startups is interesting. To continue the analogy, if you're not finding product-market-fit, then it might be time to pivot :)
      - j7ake 5y ago
        The artist struggle is real. And one can do a simple Reddit search to see how many people regret their choices. I admire the courage of artists (and startups, restaurants, scientists) going on such risky paths, and they collectively bring a net gain. But I see your point in that I would hesitate to recommend pursuing art as specific advice for individuals. In this case I disagree with Ruth’s father’s parenting strategy even though Ruth became a successful pianist.
  - iakov 5y ago
    Have you personally created anything that helps people or makes society better in any way?
    - halpert 5y ago
      I hope so. I’ve created things used by hundreds of millions people, but maybe that’s not a good definition of “better”. But whether or not I’ve made things better is irrelevant. What’s important is that at least I tried.
      - iakov 5y ago
        Can we see some of the things you've created in your own free time that are used by hundreds of millions of people then? And of course it is relevant! That's what you say in your parent comment, right?
        halpert 5y ago
        I prefer to maintain my anonymity. I'm not sure why you're personally attacking me for expressing my opinion. The point of my comment was that the ego of an artist is only self-serving. Obviously not every pursuit can end in success.
        iakov 5y ago
        Of course you do. I was not attacking you, but just wondering what do you consider to be a superior past time than creating art. The fact that you have to hide behind the mask of anonymity tells me everything though, so thank you.
        halpert 5y ago
        Feel free to respond to this comment with your LinkedIn. I will DM you there.

chottocharaii 5y ago

That is quite a pitifully narrow worldview

halpert 5y ago
Why do you think that? I have many friends who have aspired to be artists and musicians. They all do it out of a selfish desire to have others appreciate their work. For every one successful artist, there are tens of thousands of others that simply waste time and resources. If they weren't so enamored with themselves, they could create something that helps people or makes society better in some way. I truly feel that a life unsuccessfully dedicated to art is a life wasted.
- bigyikes 5y ago
  Every artist I know enjoys making art. Time enjoyed is not time wasted.
- j7ake 5y ago
  I agree it is a very competitive career, mostly a winner take all world, and require a certain audacity and ego to make it through. I would disagree that, just because a small percentage of them succeed, the artist path is a waste of resources. The small number of big successes over the history have more than made up for the majority of failures in art. Perhaps a more hacker news analogy is this: just because most start ups fail does not mean that pursuing start ups are a waste of resources. The competition creates a dialogue for people to tinker and figure out what really resonates with society.
  - halpert 5y ago
    Your viewpoint is at a more broad level than mine. I definitely think arts benefit society, which is in line with what you're saying. But at a human level, those who unsuccessfully pursue the arts suffer. With their most productive years spent unfruitfully, their late lives seem difficult. Often, they haven't saved anything for retirement and need to toil in menial labor until their bones crumble to dust. Especially later in life, providing for others, especially one's children, becomes increasingly important. I see a lot of my artist friends struggle emotionally because they don't have the means to give their children certain opportunities. Comparing musicians to startups is interesting. To continue the analogy, if you're not finding product-market-fit, then it might be time to pivot :)
    - j7ake 5y ago
      The artist struggle is real. And one can do a simple Reddit search to see how many people regret their choices. I admire the courage of artists (and startups, restaurants, scientists) going on such risky paths, and they collectively bring a net gain. But I see your point in that I would hesitate to recommend pursuing art as specific advice for individuals. In this case I disagree with Ruth’s father’s parenting strategy even though Ruth became a successful pianist.
- iakov 5y ago
  Have you personally created anything that helps people or makes society better in any way?
  - halpert 5y ago
    I hope so. I’ve created things used by hundreds of millions people, but maybe that’s not a good definition of “better”. But whether or not I’ve made things better is irrelevant. What’s important is that at least I tried.
    - iakov 5y ago
      Can we see some of the things you've created in your own free time that are used by hundreds of millions of people then? And of course it is relevant! That's what you say in your parent comment, right?
      - halpert 5y ago
        I prefer to maintain my anonymity. I'm not sure why you're personally attacking me for expressing my opinion. The point of my comment was that the ego of an artist is only self-serving. Obviously not every pursuit can end in success.
        iakov 5y ago
        Of course you do. I was not attacking you, but just wondering what do you consider to be a superior past time than creating art. The fact that you have to hide behind the mask of anonymity tells me everything though, so thank you.
        halpert 5y ago
        Feel free to respond to this comment with your LinkedIn. I will DM you there.