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> you will have to get a Wok with a flat bottom If it has a flat bottom, then it’s not a wok. Personally, I hate cooking on induction. My parent have it and i

by Aaargh20318 5y ago

> you will have to get a Wok with a flat bottom If it has a flat bottom, then it’s not a wok. Personally, I hate cooking on induction. My parent have it and it never worked for me. I need to see/hear the gas to be able to control the heat properly. Once they shut off the gas lines due to the energy transition, I’m going to run a gas pipe from the kitchen to my basement and just buy it in canisters.

samwillis 5y ago
True, a flat bottom means it isn’t a “classic” Wok but we find them just as usable. I think there are probably still UX problems to be solved with Induction, the visual feedback on gas is better. We fortunately have knobs on ours (I hate the touch buttons on some).
zrail 5y ago
> Once they shut off the gas lines due to the energy transition, This won't happen. What will happen instead is that the gas to cook your omelette in the morning will cost three times more than going to a restaurant would and you'll make your own decision about shutting down your gas lines.
- adrianN 5y ago
  Uh, no. You can make Methane from CO2 and electricity with something like 70% efficiency. So while gas will become a lot more expensive, it won't become too expensive to use it for cooking. You don't need all that much gas for cooking.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    You need to factor in the fact that in many areas natural gas is literally a waste byproduct of the oil extraction process, which is why it’s cheap enough for us to cook with. It’s not just that we would need to make methane at 70% efficiency, it’s that we’d be transitioning from something that’s artificially cheap to something that must be made special purpose just for cooking right as alternatives are getting cheaper. And then there’s the distribution network. That’s not free to maintain, and in a world where better electric options are available municipalities are going to want to stop paying for it. This is the same thing I say to petrol heads about gas. Sure, there might be some left for enthusiasts. But enthusiasts alone will not be able to afford the massive economies of scale that make that consumption anything close to affordable.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      I argue that the price for fuel essentially doesn't matter because you don't need all that much. Electricity costs a couple of cents per kWh, so it's very unlikely that synthetic Methane will cost more than a few dozen cents per kWh. So you can run a stove for an hour a day for one or two bucks or so. I guess that's several times more than you pay for natural gas, but a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant.
      - ashtonkem 5y ago
        I think you’ve got this completely backwards. > so it's very unlikely that synthetic Methane will cost more than a few dozen cents per kWh No, it’ll cost much more than that. You’re ignoring the factored in cost of storing and distributing gas. This is something that’s only affordable because of economies of scale (and government support) because it was the only practical option for heating and hot water for a while. As electricity gets cheaper and people switch over to heat pumps and electric hot water heaters, the cost of that distribution network is going to fall on fewer people, driving up their cost. I wouldn’t be surprised if that the gas bill for synthetic methane just for cooking was as high as your current gas bill for heating and cooking. Once economies of scale go away, things get costly fast. > So you can run a stove for an hour a day for one or two bucks or so. I guess that's several times more than you pay for natural gas, but a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant. Sure. But the competitor to a natural gas stove isn’t eating out, it’s electricity. Especially as gas gets more expensive and induction ranges become the norm.
  - fnbr 5y ago
    I think it’s more likely that we’ll see carbon taxes make it prohibitively expensive than the cost of production itself. In Canada, we’ve got a tax going up to $170/ton by 2030. If most homes go fully electric, I bet that goes up even further.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      Carbon taxes don't apply for synthetic Methane made with atmospheric CO2.
- Aaargh20318 5y ago
  > This won't happen. Not sure where you live, but in my country the plan is to get everyone off gas by 2050. At that time the national gas network should be shut down.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I believe they sell induction hobs that project blue light 'flames' to reflect the heat strength as a visual aid. Not sure if any do the audio as well. https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7504115/samsungs-virtual-flame-induction-stovetop-ces-2015 https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7504115/samsungs-virtual-f...
- smileysteve 5y ago
  You can hear induction if you can hear above 16khz too.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
maxwell86 5y ago
> If it has a flat bottom, then it’s not a wok. It has a flat bottom "outside", inside it has the same shape as a normal wok.
- dpark 5y ago
  Really? I’ve never seen a wok like this. Most flat bottomed woks are just flat bottomed. A wok with a flat bottom outside and curved surface inside would also be heavy.
  - tempest_ 5y ago
    I have a cast iron one sorta like this https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/lodge-cast-iron-wok/ https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/lodge-cast-iron-wok... Yeah, it is heavy. You cant really toss things in it like you would a carbon steel wok.
    - Aaargh20318 5y ago
      I can’t access that page from Europe, it gives me a “to our valued customers: fuck you!” page. If it’s heavy cast iron, it’s not a wok but a wadjan. Does it have 2 handles as well ? A wadjan is an Indonesian wok-like pan, but unlike a wok a wadjan retains heat due to it being heavy cast iron. A wok should be thin sheet steel so it heats up and cools down very quickly. Wadjans are very good for things that have to stew/simmer, which is common in Indonesian cuisine. It has different uses than a Chinese wok.
      - tempest_ 5y ago
        I have seen wadjan but I did not know the name, the one I have is sorta a cross between the two. No flat bottom inside the pan but it has handles like the wadjan (probably due to the weight). Here is a link that might be more useful https://i.imgur.com/NKXQpXZ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/NKXQpXZ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4MlLayk.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4MlLayk.jpeg Yeah, it isnt quite like a carbon steel wok but most people in North America wont have a a wok burner to hold the round bottom so they need the flat part. You also definitely cant cook in them quite like a wok since as you say the cast iron holds so much heat. I usually just get it real hot on the burner for 5 or 6 minutes and then stir fry something. You have to take the food out when it is ready though because moving so much iron off the burner doesn't cool it down as quick.
tinus_hn 5y ago
How do you think those canisters are being filled?
- Aaargh20318 5y ago
  Not from the country-wide natural gas network, as they contain propane instead of methane. They will keep selling those as you can’t exactly take a induction hob camping. Propane requires a slight modification to a gas hob (basically, different sized nozzles) but those came with my hob and it’s trivial to replace them.
bigfudge 5y ago
Or you can get an induction wok burner with a curved base, which are just phenomenal… i bought a de detreich but there are a number of brands that do them. It’s way hotter than my previous gas wok ring, and also doesn’t produce so much smell because the gas itself is not rising around the pan and carrying vapours away.
- stephen_g 5y ago
  That’s cool! I have an induction stove (it’s fantastic) but no woks. I’ll probably just end up getting a flat bottom one myself but it’s really cool that those curved induction burners exist (just googled it) - I’d never heard of them until now.
faitswulff 5y ago
Chef Jon Kung posted a video talking about cooking on induction that features a rounded induction cooktop for woks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY
kibwen 5y ago
> My parent have it and it never worked for me Can you clarify, are you certain you're talking about induction? Inductive cooktops are a relatively recent trend, if you grew up with an electric range there's a good chance it was a resistive cooktop, not an inductive cooktop. Resistive cooktops are pretty notoriously unsatisfying.
- Aaargh20318 5y ago
  > Can you clarify, are you certain you're talking about induction? Inductive cooktops are a relatively recent trend Not that recent, at least not here in Europe. I know the difference, they had a resistive cooktop maybe 15 years ago or so, that was even worse, took forever to respond. There are several problems with induction. While not inherent to induction, the controls tend to be crap. For some reason most induction cooktops have touch controls, which are an absolute disaster. At my parents previous place they had one where you had to first select the burner, and then use +/- touch buttons to change the temperature. You couldn’t quickly change anything. And of course the touch controls never worked if you had wet hands (and why would you have wet hands when cooking, right ?) Although indiction plates with knobs apparently do exist, I haven’t seen any yet. A problem that is inherent is the complete lack of feedback: you can’t see a flame, you can’t hear it, meaning you can’t adjust the temperature by feel. Another inherent problem is that it limits the type of cookware you can use on it, only flat bottomed steel pans. Basically, they are very impractical devices and not fit for purpose in any way.
  - kibwen 5y ago
    You're welcome to your own personal preference, but concluding that "they are very impractical devices and not fit for purpose in any way" is so clearly hyperbolic that it deflates your entire position.
    - Aaargh20318 5y ago
      I mean, they are probably okay if all you use it for is boil a pot of pasta or heat some soup. If you actually like cooking they are pretty much useless. It’s like working with one hand tied behind your back.

samwillis 5y ago

True, a flat bottom means it isn’t a “classic” Wok but we find them just as usable. I think there are probably still UX problems to be solved with Induction, the visual feedback on gas is better. We fortunately have knobs on ours (I hate the touch buttons on some).

zrail 5y ago

> Once they shut off the gas lines due to the energy transition, This won't happen. What will happen instead is that the gas to cook your omelette in the morning will cost three times more than going to a restaurant would and you'll make your own decision about shutting down your gas lines.

adrianN 5y ago
Uh, no. You can make Methane from CO2 and electricity with something like 70% efficiency. So while gas will become a lot more expensive, it won't become too expensive to use it for cooking. You don't need all that much gas for cooking.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  You need to factor in the fact that in many areas natural gas is literally a waste byproduct of the oil extraction process, which is why it’s cheap enough for us to cook with. It’s not just that we would need to make methane at 70% efficiency, it’s that we’d be transitioning from something that’s artificially cheap to something that must be made special purpose just for cooking right as alternatives are getting cheaper. And then there’s the distribution network. That’s not free to maintain, and in a world where better electric options are available municipalities are going to want to stop paying for it. This is the same thing I say to petrol heads about gas. Sure, there might be some left for enthusiasts. But enthusiasts alone will not be able to afford the massive economies of scale that make that consumption anything close to affordable.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    I argue that the price for fuel essentially doesn't matter because you don't need all that much. Electricity costs a couple of cents per kWh, so it's very unlikely that synthetic Methane will cost more than a few dozen cents per kWh. So you can run a stove for an hour a day for one or two bucks or so. I guess that's several times more than you pay for natural gas, but a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      I think you’ve got this completely backwards. > so it's very unlikely that synthetic Methane will cost more than a few dozen cents per kWh No, it’ll cost much more than that. You’re ignoring the factored in cost of storing and distributing gas. This is something that’s only affordable because of economies of scale (and government support) because it was the only practical option for heating and hot water for a while. As electricity gets cheaper and people switch over to heat pumps and electric hot water heaters, the cost of that distribution network is going to fall on fewer people, driving up their cost. I wouldn’t be surprised if that the gas bill for synthetic methane just for cooking was as high as your current gas bill for heating and cooking. Once economies of scale go away, things get costly fast. > So you can run a stove for an hour a day for one or two bucks or so. I guess that's several times more than you pay for natural gas, but a lot cheaper than going to a restaurant. Sure. But the competitor to a natural gas stove isn’t eating out, it’s electricity. Especially as gas gets more expensive and induction ranges become the norm.
- fnbr 5y ago
  I think it’s more likely that we’ll see carbon taxes make it prohibitively expensive than the cost of production itself. In Canada, we’ve got a tax going up to $170/ton by 2030. If most homes go fully electric, I bet that goes up even further.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    Carbon taxes don't apply for synthetic Methane made with atmospheric CO2.
Aaargh20318 5y ago
> This won't happen. Not sure where you live, but in my country the plan is to get everyone off gas by 2050. At that time the national gas network should be shut down.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

I believe they sell induction hobs that project blue light 'flames' to reflect the heat strength as a visual aid. Not sure if any do the audio as well. https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7504115/samsungs-virtual-flame-induction-stovetop-ces-2015 https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7504115/samsungs-virtual-f...

smileysteve 5y ago
You can hear induction if you can hear above 16khz too.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

maxwell86 5y ago

> If it has a flat bottom, then it’s not a wok. It has a flat bottom "outside", inside it has the same shape as a normal wok.

dpark 5y ago
Really? I’ve never seen a wok like this. Most flat bottomed woks are just flat bottomed. A wok with a flat bottom outside and curved surface inside would also be heavy.
- tempest_ 5y ago
  I have a cast iron one sorta like this https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/lodge-cast-iron-wok/ https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/lodge-cast-iron-wok... Yeah, it is heavy. You cant really toss things in it like you would a carbon steel wok.
  - Aaargh20318 5y ago
    I can’t access that page from Europe, it gives me a “to our valued customers: fuck you!” page. If it’s heavy cast iron, it’s not a wok but a wadjan. Does it have 2 handles as well ? A wadjan is an Indonesian wok-like pan, but unlike a wok a wadjan retains heat due to it being heavy cast iron. A wok should be thin sheet steel so it heats up and cools down very quickly. Wadjans are very good for things that have to stew/simmer, which is common in Indonesian cuisine. It has different uses than a Chinese wok.
    - tempest_ 5y ago
      I have seen wadjan but I did not know the name, the one I have is sorta a cross between the two. No flat bottom inside the pan but it has handles like the wadjan (probably due to the weight). Here is a link that might be more useful https://i.imgur.com/NKXQpXZ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/NKXQpXZ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4MlLayk.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4MlLayk.jpeg Yeah, it isnt quite like a carbon steel wok but most people in North America wont have a a wok burner to hold the round bottom so they need the flat part. You also definitely cant cook in them quite like a wok since as you say the cast iron holds so much heat. I usually just get it real hot on the burner for 5 or 6 minutes and then stir fry something. You have to take the food out when it is ready though because moving so much iron off the burner doesn't cool it down as quick.

tinus_hn 5y ago

How do you think those canisters are being filled?

Aaargh20318 5y ago
Not from the country-wide natural gas network, as they contain propane instead of methane. They will keep selling those as you can’t exactly take a induction hob camping. Propane requires a slight modification to a gas hob (basically, different sized nozzles) but those came with my hob and it’s trivial to replace them.

bigfudge 5y ago

Or you can get an induction wok burner with a curved base, which are just phenomenal… i bought a de detreich but there are a number of brands that do them. It’s way hotter than my previous gas wok ring, and also doesn’t produce so much smell because the gas itself is not rising around the pan and carrying vapours away.

stephen_g 5y ago
That’s cool! I have an induction stove (it’s fantastic) but no woks. I’ll probably just end up getting a flat bottom one myself but it’s really cool that those curved induction burners exist (just googled it) - I’d never heard of them until now.

faitswulff 5y ago

Chef Jon Kung posted a video talking about cooking on induction that features a rounded induction cooktop for woks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY

kibwen 5y ago

> My parent have it and it never worked for me Can you clarify, are you certain you're talking about induction? Inductive cooktops are a relatively recent trend, if you grew up with an electric range there's a good chance it was a resistive cooktop, not an inductive cooktop. Resistive cooktops are pretty notoriously unsatisfying.

Aaargh20318 5y ago
> Can you clarify, are you certain you're talking about induction? Inductive cooktops are a relatively recent trend Not that recent, at least not here in Europe. I know the difference, they had a resistive cooktop maybe 15 years ago or so, that was even worse, took forever to respond. There are several problems with induction. While not inherent to induction, the controls tend to be crap. For some reason most induction cooktops have touch controls, which are an absolute disaster. At my parents previous place they had one where you had to first select the burner, and then use +/- touch buttons to change the temperature. You couldn’t quickly change anything. And of course the touch controls never worked if you had wet hands (and why would you have wet hands when cooking, right ?) Although indiction plates with knobs apparently do exist, I haven’t seen any yet. A problem that is inherent is the complete lack of feedback: you can’t see a flame, you can’t hear it, meaning you can’t adjust the temperature by feel. Another inherent problem is that it limits the type of cookware you can use on it, only flat bottomed steel pans. Basically, they are very impractical devices and not fit for purpose in any way.
- kibwen 5y ago
  You're welcome to your own personal preference, but concluding that "they are very impractical devices and not fit for purpose in any way" is so clearly hyperbolic that it deflates your entire position.
  - Aaargh20318 5y ago
    I mean, they are probably okay if all you use it for is boil a pot of pasta or heat some soup. If you actually like cooking they are pretty much useless. It’s like working with one hand tied behind your back.