6 ms·

The idea that blockchain tech is somehow invented out of nothing and then we search for a problem to match couldn't be further from the truth. Talk to anyone wh

by ique 5y ago

The idea that blockchain tech is somehow invented out of nothing and then we search for a problem to match couldn't be further from the truth. Talk to anyone who works in the industry and they're trying to solve a problem. I used to work in blockchain tech and the main problem I was focused on was "How do we prevent internet monopolies like Facebook and Google?". If you don't see those monopolies as a problem, then you're disagreeing with the problem space, that doesn't make it "trying to find a problem".

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
There's quite a bit of distance between blockchain tech and preventing Facebook/Google monopolies isn't there? And as long as blockchain tech has some dependency on capital investment, your better funded outfits are always going to have the terrain tilted in their favor.
- ique 5y ago
  If it has dependency on capital investment, it's not blockchain tech. Like almost by definition. Unless you adopt a super dumb idea of "blockchain = linked list". If you're talking about more than the data structure then what you're saying makes no sense.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
tjs8rj 5y ago
How does blockchain tech prevent monopolies exactly? Any environment that respects property rights and has activities that can be done more efficiently with scale and concentration will have centralization. Cryptocurrencies themselves are centralized by almost every dimension because mining exhibits those characteristics. Nearly any interesting on chain technology is centralized in that a minority disproportionately receives the vast majority of the upside. None of this kills monopolies
- meotimdihia 5y ago
  how about https://github.com/oneclickdapp/ethereum-auth https://github.com/oneclickdapp/ethereum-auth And decentralized storage coins for example. Bitcoin can solve USD monopoly. And a lot of other examples...
  - democracy 5y ago
    What's wrong with USD monopoly? I am genuinely clueless, it's good to have currencies that are accepted anywhere in the world, isn't it?
    - The_rationalist 5y ago
      The issue is that USD use imply to follow a few conditions/rules which the the U.S use to its own interest IIRC
      - democracy 5y ago
        By having USD in my pocket I need to follow certain rules? Like what?
- ique 5y ago
  You are using a very different meaning of centralisation and decentralisation than blockchain people do. That's neither here nor there though. The way you kill Facebook, Google and any Web2 company is to kill their business model. These are all 100% ad-funded businesses. Kill the advertising funded internet and these monopolies categorically die with it. The only _attempt_ I've ever seen at addressing the issue that all the major websites are ad-funded has been within the blockchain space. Show me any other realistic alternative to ad-funding and I will happily adopt it.
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    The question is how does additional fund sources prevent people from also using advertising or collecting data? For example subscription services for newspapers often still show ads. Usually additional revenue streams are used to capture more revenue. If the answer to killing the ad funding business model was individuals pay directly it’s going to face a steep uphill battle because right now for most people the cost to read is free. What improved experience does it provide for the additional cost?
obstacle1 5y ago
> Talk to anyone who works in the industry and they're trying to solve a problem. Sure. But are those problems worth solving? How many VCs does the world need to pump cash into NFT-enabled video games before we ask the question, "why?" https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/22/nba-top-shot-creator-dapper-labs-raises-another-250-million/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/22/nba-top-shot-creator-dappe...
- ique 5y ago
  What makes a problem worth solving exactly? How many SaaS businesses do we need? How many todo apps do we need? How many game engines do we need?
usrbinbash 5y ago
And how does a distributed Ledger solve these problems? Monopolies like Google and Facebook exist, in no small part, because the amount of computation and data they handle is vast, and they have the data centers to deal with that. How much data gets has to be stored on the servers of such services? Per second? I'd assume its in the range of several GiB...again per second. Okay, so how does the blockchain compare to that? Ethereum can store data, each byte requires about 600 of its "gas" computational equivalent. A block represents 30,000,000 gas, 1 block is generated every 15sec, so we can store a grand total of about 1MiB every 300 seconds...that is, if none of the gas is used for anything other than storing data, which means, no other computations running. So how is "blockchain technology" going to solve the problems that come from such highly centralized services exactly?
- ique 5y ago
  Monopolies like Google and Facebook exist because of advertising. Remove advertising and they don't exist. The fact that they're processing a lot of data is in large part because they need to for advertising. Still, your understanding of blockchain tech is misleading here. Ethereum is public key registry at best and is not and should not be used to store or process data. In a blockchain world you can still have service providers, but the user is the one with the power, not the service provider. Users are free to switch service providers as they see fit because their identity and data isn't tied to a single company.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Users are free to switch service providers as they see fit No they are not. That is, they will need just as "free" to switch in the non-blockchain world. Why? Obvious, isn't it? - Blockchains can't store the amounts of data required (Youtube/Instagram/TikTok on blockchain? What a nice joke) - Even if you somehow can, companies will store data in their own proprietary ways incompatible with each other - And, of course, this data will be on different blockchains, some of them invented specifically for the purpose In reality though, as we're seeing it with NFTs all the data will be centrally stored with only some meaningless tokens referencing it stored on blockchains
democracy 5y ago
I am trying to solve world's hunger with my OpenGL game using 8080 assembler. I think I am getting somewhere...
- ique 5y ago
  Good luck! I hope you succeed, it’s certainly a goal worth pursuing!
- The_rationalist 5y ago
  Well they might be able to render food thanks to you.

by ique 5y ago

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

There's quite a bit of distance between blockchain tech and preventing Facebook/Google monopolies isn't there? And as long as blockchain tech has some dependency on capital investment, your better funded outfits are always going to have the terrain tilted in their favor.

ique 5y ago
If it has dependency on capital investment, it's not blockchain tech. Like almost by definition. Unless you adopt a super dumb idea of "blockchain = linked list". If you're talking about more than the data structure then what you're saying makes no sense.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

tjs8rj 5y ago

How does blockchain tech prevent monopolies exactly? Any environment that respects property rights and has activities that can be done more efficiently with scale and concentration will have centralization. Cryptocurrencies themselves are centralized by almost every dimension because mining exhibits those characteristics. Nearly any interesting on chain technology is centralized in that a minority disproportionately receives the vast majority of the upside. None of this kills monopolies

meotimdihia 5y ago
how about https://github.com/oneclickdapp/ethereum-auth https://github.com/oneclickdapp/ethereum-auth And decentralized storage coins for example. Bitcoin can solve USD monopoly. And a lot of other examples...
- democracy 5y ago
  What's wrong with USD monopoly? I am genuinely clueless, it's good to have currencies that are accepted anywhere in the world, isn't it?
  - The_rationalist 5y ago
    The issue is that USD use imply to follow a few conditions/rules which the the U.S use to its own interest IIRC
    - democracy 5y ago
      By having USD in my pocket I need to follow certain rules? Like what?
ique 5y ago
You are using a very different meaning of centralisation and decentralisation than blockchain people do. That's neither here nor there though. The way you kill Facebook, Google and any Web2 company is to kill their business model. These are all 100% ad-funded businesses. Kill the advertising funded internet and these monopolies categorically die with it. The only _attempt_ I've ever seen at addressing the issue that all the major websites are ad-funded has been within the blockchain space. Show me any other realistic alternative to ad-funding and I will happily adopt it.
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  The question is how does additional fund sources prevent people from also using advertising or collecting data? For example subscription services for newspapers often still show ads. Usually additional revenue streams are used to capture more revenue. If the answer to killing the ad funding business model was individuals pay directly it’s going to face a steep uphill battle because right now for most people the cost to read is free. What improved experience does it provide for the additional cost?

obstacle1 5y ago

> Talk to anyone who works in the industry and they're trying to solve a problem. Sure. But are those problems worth solving? How many VCs does the world need to pump cash into NFT-enabled video games before we ask the question, "why?" https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/22/nba-top-shot-creator-dapper-labs-raises-another-250-million/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/22/nba-top-shot-creator-dappe...

ique 5y ago
What makes a problem worth solving exactly? How many SaaS businesses do we need? How many todo apps do we need? How many game engines do we need?

usrbinbash 5y ago

And how does a distributed Ledger solve these problems? Monopolies like Google and Facebook exist, in no small part, because the amount of computation and data they handle is vast, and they have the data centers to deal with that. How much data gets has to be stored on the servers of such services? Per second? I'd assume its in the range of several GiB...again per second. Okay, so how does the blockchain compare to that? Ethereum can store data, each byte requires about 600 of its "gas" computational equivalent. A block represents 30,000,000 gas, 1 block is generated every 15sec, so we can store a grand total of about 1MiB every 300 seconds...that is, if none of the gas is used for anything other than storing data, which means, no other computations running. So how is "blockchain technology" going to solve the problems that come from such highly centralized services exactly?

ique 5y ago
Monopolies like Google and Facebook exist because of advertising. Remove advertising and they don't exist. The fact that they're processing a lot of data is in large part because they need to for advertising. Still, your understanding of blockchain tech is misleading here. Ethereum is public key registry at best and is not and should not be used to store or process data. In a blockchain world you can still have service providers, but the user is the one with the power, not the service provider. Users are free to switch service providers as they see fit because their identity and data isn't tied to a single company.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Users are free to switch service providers as they see fit No they are not. That is, they will need just as "free" to switch in the non-blockchain world. Why? Obvious, isn't it? - Blockchains can't store the amounts of data required (Youtube/Instagram/TikTok on blockchain? What a nice joke) - Even if you somehow can, companies will store data in their own proprietary ways incompatible with each other - And, of course, this data will be on different blockchains, some of them invented specifically for the purpose In reality though, as we're seeing it with NFTs all the data will be centrally stored with only some meaningless tokens referencing it stored on blockchains

democracy 5y ago

I am trying to solve world's hunger with my OpenGL game using 8080 assembler. I think I am getting somewhere...

ique 5y ago
Good luck! I hope you succeed, it’s certainly a goal worth pursuing!
The_rationalist 5y ago
Well they might be able to render food thanks to you.