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People are doing research and deploying cool stuff that others are actively using. You can criticize that as much as you want but it won’t do much.

by baby 5y ago

foepys 5y ago
Can you show some examples?
- baby 5y ago
  I work on Mina, check it out
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Tipping site owners, BAT token. Incentivizing IPFS content pinning, Filecoin. Allowing censorship-resistant / chargeback free donations, most coins. Enabling private transactions, Monero. Most "dapps" empower decentralization, distributed exchanges, trading, DNS, ownership contracts (DOAs), etc. NFT's for art as silly as it is, more importantly for Handshake domain names and other cases where ownership proof comes into play. Please feel free to go and attack all of those ideas and projects, but don't think for a second you can really gaslight people into believing they aren't worth of pursuit.
  - foepys 5y ago
    > Please feel free to go and attack all of those ideas and projects, but don't think for a second you can really gaslight people into believing they aren't worth of pursuit. This hostility is completely unnecessary. But if you want I can add one more to the list: funding the North Korean nuclear weapons program. https://www.zdnet.com/article/north-korean-hackers-stole-a-record-breaking-amount-of-cryptocurrency-last-year/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/north-korean-hackers-stole-a-r...
    - pygy_ 5y ago
      Also, let Iran burn a fair bit of its oil to mine ฿S.
    - beambot 5y ago
      I'm confused. Are you being facetious about crypto having adverse uses too, or are you saying we should ban rocketry (another technology with good & bad uses), or something else entirely?
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        They're being semi-facetious about crypto having adverse uses. ("Too"?)
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      That's subjective, I think the tone was warranted given your dismissive response to GP. It's annoying to see the constant crypto bashing with tired talking points regurgitated. Anyways, did my list meet your expectations of valid projects, is that why you started going on about NK, lol?
  - Dwolb 5y ago
    A cool example of NFT innovation is programmable royalty fees. Those fees can be directed back to the creator, the community, a DAO treasury. Configurations are infinite.
    - spiderice 5y ago
      If I'm understanding what you're referring to, this is one of the worst part of NFTs. How is it any different than me having to pay Ford a royalty when I sell my used car on Craigslist? It's such a toxic feature for consumers. Sure, when used correctly it could be cool to help creators or whatever. It will absolutely be abused. It already is being abused by scammers who create NFTs that can't be sold.
      - Dwolb 5y ago
        It can be abused, but it allows the creator or developer to align incentives in different ways. eg if the royalty goes toward a DAO, maybe that DAO’s charter is to grow awareness for the NFT project. Or the rewards could accrue toward a staked project token that all community members hold, or fees could go back to the creator to fund development for next gen. I don’t know the best use, but my point is because someone programmed royalties, there’s now another dimension of configuration for NFT projects.
    - lottin 5y ago
      That's not example of something NFTs can do, is it? Royalty fees are not programmable. How does the NFT know whether someone has to pay royalties? And how on earth is an NFT going to make people pay royalties? An NFT can't use coercive force.
      - Dwolb 5y ago
        It’s marketplace-specific right now but the standards are evolving to support it natively: https://www.gemini.com/blog/exploring-the-nft-royalty-standard-eip-2981 https://www.gemini.com/blog/exploring-the-nft-royalty-standa...
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > chargeback free donations Are chargebacks on donations are major issue for any legitimate non-profit organization?
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Virtual game currencies, controversial politics, porn, gambling etc. Basically anything Stripe / PayPal locks your account for and considers you high risk or CC companies block.
      - erik_seaberg 5y ago
        They are targets for testing stolen numbers: https://blog.sift.com/2016/card-testing-chargebacks-and-nonprofit-donation-sites/ https://blog.sift.com/2016/card-testing-chargebacks-and-nonp... I can also imagine political orgs having foes.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Yup, and crypto nips that in the bud. If you get a confirmed transaction, it's not going to be reversed by some unfair arbitration, you can trust it. It sucks trying to run a game losing $20+ per chargeback and risking getting funds frozen entirely. It sucks to be delisted by PayPal over political bullshit. It sucks Mastercard and other CC companies can decide porn is essentially illegal. - edit @ notahacker - The point is you're at the whim of PayPal, Stripe, and credit card company policies for traditional fiat currency. Have fun trying to sell guns (FFL be damned), porn subs (legal like you mentioned), virtual currency (legal ofc), or anything like that with traditional processors. Crypto is the only option for those industries and a few others if you want to accept payment online. Doesn't matter how many billions the industry is worth if you can't accept a credit card on your site for the service. If all majors processors ban it, it's essentially blocked.
        notahacker 5y ago
        Porn isn't "essentially illegal", it's an industry worth billions of dollars, virtually none of which involves blockchains.
  - mujina93 5y ago
    You can tip people with normal money. Paying for hosting with extremely volatile and environmental harmful tokens that only a part of population pretends has a real value, that you want to hoard rather than spend, and that might go to 0 at some point? To have basically torrents? Sending deflationary ponzi scheme tokens to people is not helping them. Also, fees are high. Private transactions are great if you are a criminal, I'll give you that. Tell me one "dapp" (or "extremely wasteful programs that run on a CPU that is orders and orders of magnitude slower than an actual one) that is doing something useful. I haven't found one yet and I've been searching for some years now. With NFTs you don't own anything, unless there's an actual contract that comes with it. Also you buy a hyperlink that points to central storage. Also money laundering and wash trading are rampant.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      > You can tip people with normal money. If the powers at be allow you to (PayPal, banks, credit card companies) If Mastercard doesn't like you or your wares (porn or dissent) good luck! > Private transactions are great if you are a criminal, I'll give you that. Tired old trope. You don't have to be a criminal to enjoy privacy. > Tell me one "dapp" (or "extremely wasteful programs that run on a CPU that is orders and orders of magnitude slower than an actual one) that is doing something useful. I haven't found one yet and I've been searching for some years now. I have, read above. Decentralizing. Exchanges, payment processors, distributed DNS, distributed CDN, distributed royalties. >With NFTs you don't own anything, unless there's an actual contract that comes with it. Also you buy a hyperlink that points to central storage. Also money laundering and wash trading are rampant. Tired old trope. It's simply a non-fungible token that can represent your ownership of an asset. You can own a Handshake domain using NFTs. There are other uses other than a hyperlink pointing to artwork. Yes others can access your domain and artwork, but you own it and you can sell it. In regards to your domain that's how you prove you own it and can admin it.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        There is a reason tired old tropes become tired old tropes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bb88 5y ago
Like NFT's? Money laundering services? What?
yashg 5y ago
Is there any cool stuff that doesn't involve speculative trading in some "coin" or "token"? I recently read about a steel maker in India executing a cross border order on blockchain. On further reading it turns out their bank used a third party company for digitizing letter of credit and that company claims to be using an enterprise blockchain R3 Corda. R3 itself is owned by a consortium of banks and on their website they don't use the word blockchain to describe Corda. They call it DLT. My understanding is that a blockchain is supposed to be distributed, trustless, permissionless, immutable and open. At least that is what the core ideology behind it and is touted as the cornerstone features of blockchain. An enterprise blockchain is private, trustful, permissoned and everything that is a blockchain is not supposed to be. At that stage is it even a blockchain or just another propitiatory data store?
- tomc1985 5y ago
  > My understanding is that a blockchain is supposed to be distributed, trustless, permissionless, immutable and open. A blockchain is just a data structure. That description is more befitting of Decentralized Finance/DeFi
  - yashg 5y ago
    OK so a privately owned and controlled blockchain which only allows trusted users to add blocks is still a blockchain? What would be the advantages of using a private, permissioned blockchain over a MySQL/Oracle/SQL Server database for storing data? Why as an external user would I trust a centralized blockchain more than I would trust a centralized database? They are both private owned and controlled by a company.
    - freeone3000 5y ago
      You'd use a private, permissioned blockchain over federated SQL databases due to the technical difficulties of synchronizing audit tables across organizational boundaries -- since an enterprise blockchain is append-only, immutable, time-stamped, and each new entry has a hash of the previous view, it overcomes a lot of data integrity issues inherent to a distributed SQL database. None of the companies here will fully trust each other to hold an exclusive copy of the data, so the blockchain here replaces an expensive manual reconciliation step in the event local accounting databases don't match up. As an external user? Nobody cares, it's not for you, move on.

People are doing research and deploying cool stuff that others are actively using. You can criticize that as much as you want but it won’t do much.

by baby 5y ago

People are doing research and deploying cool stuff that others are actively using. You can criticize that as much as you want but it won’t do much.

foepys 5y ago

Can you show some examples?

baby 5y ago
I work on Mina, check it out
hunterb123 5y ago
Tipping site owners, BAT token. Incentivizing IPFS content pinning, Filecoin. Allowing censorship-resistant / chargeback free donations, most coins. Enabling private transactions, Monero. Most "dapps" empower decentralization, distributed exchanges, trading, DNS, ownership contracts (DOAs), etc. NFT's for art as silly as it is, more importantly for Handshake domain names and other cases where ownership proof comes into play. Please feel free to go and attack all of those ideas and projects, but don't think for a second you can really gaslight people into believing they aren't worth of pursuit.
- foepys 5y ago
  > Please feel free to go and attack all of those ideas and projects, but don't think for a second you can really gaslight people into believing they aren't worth of pursuit. This hostility is completely unnecessary. But if you want I can add one more to the list: funding the North Korean nuclear weapons program. https://www.zdnet.com/article/north-korean-hackers-stole-a-record-breaking-amount-of-cryptocurrency-last-year/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/north-korean-hackers-stole-a-r...
  - pygy_ 5y ago
    Also, let Iran burn a fair bit of its oil to mine ฿S.
  - beambot 5y ago
    I'm confused. Are you being facetious about crypto having adverse uses too, or are you saying we should ban rocketry (another technology with good & bad uses), or something else entirely?
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      They're being semi-facetious about crypto having adverse uses. ("Too"?)
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    That's subjective, I think the tone was warranted given your dismissive response to GP. It's annoying to see the constant crypto bashing with tired talking points regurgitated. Anyways, did my list meet your expectations of valid projects, is that why you started going on about NK, lol?
- Dwolb 5y ago
  A cool example of NFT innovation is programmable royalty fees. Those fees can be directed back to the creator, the community, a DAO treasury. Configurations are infinite.
  - spiderice 5y ago
    If I'm understanding what you're referring to, this is one of the worst part of NFTs. How is it any different than me having to pay Ford a royalty when I sell my used car on Craigslist? It's such a toxic feature for consumers. Sure, when used correctly it could be cool to help creators or whatever. It will absolutely be abused. It already is being abused by scammers who create NFTs that can't be sold.
    - Dwolb 5y ago
      It can be abused, but it allows the creator or developer to align incentives in different ways. eg if the royalty goes toward a DAO, maybe that DAO’s charter is to grow awareness for the NFT project. Or the rewards could accrue toward a staked project token that all community members hold, or fees could go back to the creator to fund development for next gen. I don’t know the best use, but my point is because someone programmed royalties, there’s now another dimension of configuration for NFT projects.
  - lottin 5y ago
    That's not example of something NFTs can do, is it? Royalty fees are not programmable. How does the NFT know whether someone has to pay royalties? And how on earth is an NFT going to make people pay royalties? An NFT can't use coercive force.
    - Dwolb 5y ago
      It’s marketplace-specific right now but the standards are evolving to support it natively: https://www.gemini.com/blog/exploring-the-nft-royalty-standard-eip-2981 https://www.gemini.com/blog/exploring-the-nft-royalty-standa...
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > chargeback free donations Are chargebacks on donations are major issue for any legitimate non-profit organization?
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Virtual game currencies, controversial politics, porn, gambling etc. Basically anything Stripe / PayPal locks your account for and considers you high risk or CC companies block.
    - erik_seaberg 5y ago
      They are targets for testing stolen numbers: https://blog.sift.com/2016/card-testing-chargebacks-and-nonprofit-donation-sites/ https://blog.sift.com/2016/card-testing-chargebacks-and-nonp... I can also imagine political orgs having foes.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Yup, and crypto nips that in the bud. If you get a confirmed transaction, it's not going to be reversed by some unfair arbitration, you can trust it. It sucks trying to run a game losing $20+ per chargeback and risking getting funds frozen entirely. It sucks to be delisted by PayPal over political bullshit. It sucks Mastercard and other CC companies can decide porn is essentially illegal. - edit @ notahacker - The point is you're at the whim of PayPal, Stripe, and credit card company policies for traditional fiat currency. Have fun trying to sell guns (FFL be damned), porn subs (legal like you mentioned), virtual currency (legal ofc), or anything like that with traditional processors. Crypto is the only option for those industries and a few others if you want to accept payment online. Doesn't matter how many billions the industry is worth if you can't accept a credit card on your site for the service. If all majors processors ban it, it's essentially blocked.
        notahacker 5y ago
        Porn isn't "essentially illegal", it's an industry worth billions of dollars, virtually none of which involves blockchains.
- mujina93 5y ago
  You can tip people with normal money. Paying for hosting with extremely volatile and environmental harmful tokens that only a part of population pretends has a real value, that you want to hoard rather than spend, and that might go to 0 at some point? To have basically torrents? Sending deflationary ponzi scheme tokens to people is not helping them. Also, fees are high. Private transactions are great if you are a criminal, I'll give you that. Tell me one "dapp" (or "extremely wasteful programs that run on a CPU that is orders and orders of magnitude slower than an actual one) that is doing something useful. I haven't found one yet and I've been searching for some years now. With NFTs you don't own anything, unless there's an actual contract that comes with it. Also you buy a hyperlink that points to central storage. Also money laundering and wash trading are rampant.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    > You can tip people with normal money. If the powers at be allow you to (PayPal, banks, credit card companies) If Mastercard doesn't like you or your wares (porn or dissent) good luck! > Private transactions are great if you are a criminal, I'll give you that. Tired old trope. You don't have to be a criminal to enjoy privacy. > Tell me one "dapp" (or "extremely wasteful programs that run on a CPU that is orders and orders of magnitude slower than an actual one) that is doing something useful. I haven't found one yet and I've been searching for some years now. I have, read above. Decentralizing. Exchanges, payment processors, distributed DNS, distributed CDN, distributed royalties. >With NFTs you don't own anything, unless there's an actual contract that comes with it. Also you buy a hyperlink that points to central storage. Also money laundering and wash trading are rampant. Tired old trope. It's simply a non-fungible token that can represent your ownership of an asset. You can own a Handshake domain using NFTs. There are other uses other than a hyperlink pointing to artwork. Yes others can access your domain and artwork, but you own it and you can sell it. In regards to your domain that's how you prove you own it and can admin it.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      There is a reason tired old tropes become tired old tropes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bb88 5y ago

Like NFT's? Money laundering services? What?

yashg 5y ago

Is there any cool stuff that doesn't involve speculative trading in some "coin" or "token"? I recently read about a steel maker in India executing a cross border order on blockchain. On further reading it turns out their bank used a third party company for digitizing letter of credit and that company claims to be using an enterprise blockchain R3 Corda. R3 itself is owned by a consortium of banks and on their website they don't use the word blockchain to describe Corda. They call it DLT. My understanding is that a blockchain is supposed to be distributed, trustless, permissionless, immutable and open. At least that is what the core ideology behind it and is touted as the cornerstone features of blockchain. An enterprise blockchain is private, trustful, permissoned and everything that is a blockchain is not supposed to be. At that stage is it even a blockchain or just another propitiatory data store?

tomc1985 5y ago
> My understanding is that a blockchain is supposed to be distributed, trustless, permissionless, immutable and open. A blockchain is just a data structure. That description is more befitting of Decentralized Finance/DeFi
- yashg 5y ago
  OK so a privately owned and controlled blockchain which only allows trusted users to add blocks is still a blockchain? What would be the advantages of using a private, permissioned blockchain over a MySQL/Oracle/SQL Server database for storing data? Why as an external user would I trust a centralized blockchain more than I would trust a centralized database? They are both private owned and controlled by a company.
  - freeone3000 5y ago
    You'd use a private, permissioned blockchain over federated SQL databases due to the technical difficulties of synchronizing audit tables across organizational boundaries -- since an enterprise blockchain is append-only, immutable, time-stamped, and each new entry has a hash of the previous view, it overcomes a lot of data integrity issues inherent to a distributed SQL database. None of the companies here will fully trust each other to hold an exclusive copy of the data, so the blockchain here replaces an expensive manual reconciliation step in the event local accounting databases don't match up. As an external user? Nobody cares, it's not for you, move on.