5 ms·

My ex is a linguist, and she used to tell me about the “learning by forgetting” theory of the “phonological inventory” — which is a fancy way of saying “the sou

by alecst 5y ago

My ex is a linguist, and she used to tell me about the “learning by forgetting” theory of the “phonological inventory” — which is a fancy way of saying “the sounds you can distinguish and produce.” The idea was that children were born able to distinguish all possible sounds, and over time forget the ones they are not exposed to. Interestingly she was a syntactician by training and would tell me that there are many people who believe this is true for syntax too: that children are born with all possible grammars, and “forget” the parts that they’re not exposed to. So if a language expresses parameter X but the child hears ~X, the child “forgets” about X and learns ~X by forgetting. This kind of supposes that a grammar is a set of discrete rules. But I’m not an expert in any of this, for details you’ll need to track down a real linguist.

tomjakubowski 5y ago
Interesting. Is there a correspondence between when a child loses their superhuman ability to learn new languages, and when a child achieves proficiency in the grammar and phonology of their native language?
basch 5y ago
Your comment, along with the article, confirm my biased beliefs that humans are less pattern matching machines than noise filtering machines. Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise. Tangentially, it stimulates a connection to another though that sometimes flares up concerning evolution and specialization. > If memories were gained in circumstances that are not wholly relevant to the current environment, forgetting them can be a positive change that improves our wellbeing. If as a species we evolved and specialized for a certain environment, and now we have changed the environment so much that those specializations are a hindrance, would a past proto human be better at adapting to today’s world, if brought up by modern society, due to better adaptability? Biodiversity is the blank slate beginning, and selection is the forgetting.
- hammock 5y ago
  What also does this mean for psychedelics? Could they "reopen" the filters that were earlier preventing new signals from being found? Something like switching from a digital radio dial (every .2 MHz) to an analog dial (everything in between) - you can find something you had missed before.
  - basch 5y ago
    It does make you wonder if we “learn” that things are NOT connected, and can chemically stimulate reevaluation of such learned non-patterns, helping break preconceived notions. Like if after being taught oil and water don’t mix, you could unlock the ability to question such belief.
  - naasking 5y ago
    > Could they "reopen" the filters that were earlier preventing new signals from being found? This actually is a leading theory of psychedelic action, ie. that they tear down filters we use to operate in the world.
- EarthLaunch 5y ago
  > Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise. Making connections that aren't there, ie failing to purge the unconnected, could be psychosis. The opposite would be: Not making connections, ie purging the connected. That is called low intelligence. High intelligence is often seen as making connections. Do intelligence and psychosis correlate? (And if you can make someone purge connections, are you lowering their intelligence?)
karmakaze 5y ago
I don't know how much of this has to do with forgetting so much as attaching significance. One thing I realized I was able to do for much of my life (perhaps not quite as well as I used to) is keep the concept of sound and word separate. Of course we can do this for sound effects. I've been able to maintain this for most word sounds. This was very apparent when learning foreign languages, reproducing the sounds was the easy part--just make the noise you hear.
Pigalowda 5y ago
That is synaptic pruning for language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning

by alecst 5y ago

tomjakubowski 5y ago

Interesting. Is there a correspondence between when a child loses their superhuman ability to learn new languages, and when a child achieves proficiency in the grammar and phonology of their native language?

basch 5y ago

Your comment, along with the article, confirm my biased beliefs that humans are less pattern matching machines than noise filtering machines. Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise. Tangentially, it stimulates a connection to another though that sometimes flares up concerning evolution and specialization. > If memories were gained in circumstances that are not wholly relevant to the current environment, forgetting them can be a positive change that improves our wellbeing. If as a species we evolved and specialized for a certain environment, and now we have changed the environment so much that those specializations are a hindrance, would a past proto human be better at adapting to today’s world, if brought up by modern society, due to better adaptability? Biodiversity is the blank slate beginning, and selection is the forgetting.

hammock 5y ago
What also does this mean for psychedelics? Could they "reopen" the filters that were earlier preventing new signals from being found? Something like switching from a digital radio dial (every .2 MHz) to an analog dial (everything in between) - you can find something you had missed before.
- basch 5y ago
  It does make you wonder if we “learn” that things are NOT connected, and can chemically stimulate reevaluation of such learned non-patterns, helping break preconceived notions. Like if after being taught oil and water don’t mix, you could unlock the ability to question such belief.
- naasking 5y ago
  > Could they "reopen" the filters that were earlier preventing new signals from being found? This actually is a leading theory of psychedelic action, ie. that they tear down filters we use to operate in the world.
EarthLaunch 5y ago
> Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise. Making connections that aren't there, ie failing to purge the unconnected, could be psychosis. The opposite would be: Not making connections, ie purging the connected. That is called low intelligence. High intelligence is often seen as making connections. Do intelligence and psychosis correlate? (And if you can make someone purge connections, are you lowering their intelligence?)

karmakaze 5y ago

I don't know how much of this has to do with forgetting so much as attaching significance. One thing I realized I was able to do for much of my life (perhaps not quite as well as I used to) is keep the concept of sound and word separate. Of course we can do this for sound effects. I've been able to maintain this for most word sounds. This was very apparent when learning foreign languages, reproducing the sounds was the easy part--just make the noise you hear.

Pigalowda 5y ago

That is synaptic pruning for language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning