5 ms·

Dr. Terry Walhs was diagnosed with MS and became wheel chair bound. She came up with a protocol that was able to reverse her MS. I recall from previous intervie

Dr. Terry Walhs was diagnosed with MS and became wheel chair bound. She came up with a protocol that was able to reverse her MS. I recall from previous interviews that her theory was that MS was a disease of the mitochondria. https://terrywahls.com/ https://terrywahls.com/

_qua 5y ago
And what's the theory for why supposedly successful treatment is not embraced by the medical community? Is it not more likely that her diagnosis was incorrect, or her course was atypical than that she independently discovered a cure which is rejected by the medical community at large?
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  In many circles, the Wahl's protocol (basically diet) is considered a scam. Diet does not cure MS. Governments and health insurances surely would rather pay for food every month than pay the costs of current medications. On the other hand, medications have greatly improved quality of life for MS patients over the last 20 years or so. Folks diagnosed today aren't in the same dire boat as someone 30 years ago.
  - gregwebs 5y ago
    As a counterpoint example someone close to me was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome and told by doctors that there was no treatment and that diet did not help. When she adopted a paleo like diet with no other changes the IBD symptoms went away permanently almost immediately. Another counterpoint is that I was told by doctors when I was younger that diet was not a treatment for acne. This advice being based entirely on a single study with a single dietary intervention. I think you have a mistaken understanding of what it takes to change one’s diet. A government handout wouldn’t help in the slightest. It also doesn’t help for a doctor to give someone a list of foods to eat or not eat.
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      Diet is not a cure for MS. Period. A single diet might not be a cure for IBS, but IBS affects a digestive organ. Obviously, what you eat is going to affect a digestive organ, regardless of disease, and it seems obvious that a few folks have trigger foods. And honestly, if diet were an easy way to cure acne, it'd be prescribed more. Just because you got one thing as a youth doesn't make the opposite true.
- gregwebs 5y ago
  I don’t think our medical system has any mechanism to achieve high compliance for major dietary changes, so it’s very difficult to study. Drugs are very easy to study. It’s still an N of 1 case report from a medical evidence point of view so not likely to be widely applicable.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
the Walhs protocol is generally recognized as a scam. Diet does not cure MS. If it did, diet would be first line treatment as it would be much cheaper to simply pay for someone's food than the most effective MS treatments we have. Those treatments are solely responsible for the increase in an MS patient's quality of life (over time) because they actually prevent some damage. Some, not all - they are not a cure. And FWIW: It isn't uncommon for someone with MS to use a wheelchair temporarily. OR a cane. I was half blind for 6 weeks, but that went away years ago. I spent time with numb hands, which has mostly (but not totally) gone away. If my legs had been affected - you guessed it, I might have used a wheelchair for a bit. All of this means that it can seem like a "cure" works when it is really just the way the disease course goes for lots of folks.
- gregwebs 5y ago
  It doesn’t seem like you have spent any time understanding Dr Wahls information. It took her six years to be able to ride a bicycle. I don’t know anyone with MS whose disease course went to effectively cured years, but I admit to being ignorant on the subject.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    I don't need to do that personally. If the professionals can't replicate results, then it is a sham [1]. They are selling snake oil and books full of promise they can't back up. She doesn't tend to mention that she had chemo, which you probably understand wipes out the immune system. It isn't uncommon to have little disease activity after that. You probably also don't realize that she didn't use a wheelchair because she couldn't walk, but because of fatigue. Fatigue and balance issues are really common in MS: It'd easily keep you off of a bicycle. There are medicines that help fatigue and sometimes this does ease even if you've had MS for years. There is also a good deal of overlap with depression/mood disorders and MS - which you might understand can come with their own fatigue. And when I speak of fatigue, I'm speaking of "Oops, I showered today and I can't do anything else" sort of disabling fatigue. Diet is not a cure for MS, and we should really quit pushing sham cures from folks preying on other people's feelings of hopelessness. Which, as you can imagine, is pretty common with MS. The most horrifying part of this is that it keeps folks from trying things that actually are proven to improve quality of life in the long run: MEdications. Medications actually prevent relapses. Diet does not. At most, diet is important in the same way it is important for everyone else: Most folks have slightly better outcomes if they, in general, eat healthy and are active. This isn't special to MS nor do you need to follow some strict diet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Wahls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Wahls

_qua 5y ago

And what's the theory for why supposedly successful treatment is not embraced by the medical community? Is it not more likely that her diagnosis was incorrect, or her course was atypical than that she independently discovered a cure which is rejected by the medical community at large?

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
In many circles, the Wahl's protocol (basically diet) is considered a scam. Diet does not cure MS. Governments and health insurances surely would rather pay for food every month than pay the costs of current medications. On the other hand, medications have greatly improved quality of life for MS patients over the last 20 years or so. Folks diagnosed today aren't in the same dire boat as someone 30 years ago.
- gregwebs 5y ago
  As a counterpoint example someone close to me was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome and told by doctors that there was no treatment and that diet did not help. When she adopted a paleo like diet with no other changes the IBD symptoms went away permanently almost immediately. Another counterpoint is that I was told by doctors when I was younger that diet was not a treatment for acne. This advice being based entirely on a single study with a single dietary intervention. I think you have a mistaken understanding of what it takes to change one’s diet. A government handout wouldn’t help in the slightest. It also doesn’t help for a doctor to give someone a list of foods to eat or not eat.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Diet is not a cure for MS. Period. A single diet might not be a cure for IBS, but IBS affects a digestive organ. Obviously, what you eat is going to affect a digestive organ, regardless of disease, and it seems obvious that a few folks have trigger foods. And honestly, if diet were an easy way to cure acne, it'd be prescribed more. Just because you got one thing as a youth doesn't make the opposite true.
gregwebs 5y ago
I don’t think our medical system has any mechanism to achieve high compliance for major dietary changes, so it’s very difficult to study. Drugs are very easy to study. It’s still an N of 1 case report from a medical evidence point of view so not likely to be widely applicable.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

the Walhs protocol is generally recognized as a scam. Diet does not cure MS. If it did, diet would be first line treatment as it would be much cheaper to simply pay for someone's food than the most effective MS treatments we have. Those treatments are solely responsible for the increase in an MS patient's quality of life (over time) because they actually prevent some damage. Some, not all - they are not a cure. And FWIW: It isn't uncommon for someone with MS to use a wheelchair temporarily. OR a cane. I was half blind for 6 weeks, but that went away years ago. I spent time with numb hands, which has mostly (but not totally) gone away. If my legs had been affected - you guessed it, I might have used a wheelchair for a bit. All of this means that it can seem like a "cure" works when it is really just the way the disease course goes for lots of folks.

gregwebs 5y ago
It doesn’t seem like you have spent any time understanding Dr Wahls information. It took her six years to be able to ride a bicycle. I don’t know anyone with MS whose disease course went to effectively cured years, but I admit to being ignorant on the subject.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I don't need to do that personally. If the professionals can't replicate results, then it is a sham [1]. They are selling snake oil and books full of promise they can't back up. She doesn't tend to mention that she had chemo, which you probably understand wipes out the immune system. It isn't uncommon to have little disease activity after that. You probably also don't realize that she didn't use a wheelchair because she couldn't walk, but because of fatigue. Fatigue and balance issues are really common in MS: It'd easily keep you off of a bicycle. There are medicines that help fatigue and sometimes this does ease even if you've had MS for years. There is also a good deal of overlap with depression/mood disorders and MS - which you might understand can come with their own fatigue. And when I speak of fatigue, I'm speaking of "Oops, I showered today and I can't do anything else" sort of disabling fatigue. Diet is not a cure for MS, and we should really quit pushing sham cures from folks preying on other people's feelings of hopelessness. Which, as you can imagine, is pretty common with MS. The most horrifying part of this is that it keeps folks from trying things that actually are proven to improve quality of life in the long run: MEdications. Medications actually prevent relapses. Diet does not. At most, diet is important in the same way it is important for everyone else: Most folks have slightly better outcomes if they, in general, eat healthy and are active. This isn't special to MS nor do you need to follow some strict diet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Wahls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Wahls