4 ms·

One interesting side note is that in the land of origin of pepper in India, to a very large extent Chilli has replaced pepper as the spiciness creating ingredie

by sfifs 5y ago

One interesting side note is that in the land of origin of pepper in India, to a very large extent Chilli has replaced pepper as the spiciness creating ingredient in most household and restaurant dishes. Chillies of course come from Mexico and are another colonial import. Pepper is now used only in a very few mostly traditional Indian dishes.

chupchap 5y ago
Pepper is still used a lot in Kerala, but I agree with you that red and green chilies are used more commonly.
mangamadaiyan 5y ago
Well, chilli grows far more easily than black pepper, and consequently is far more affordable, even today. Secondly, it takes far more black pepper by weight to induce any kind of burn. Thirdly, they taste very different. The widespread use of chilli as a spice in Indian cooking would also have an economic aspect to it, I'm sure. Fun fact: the one place (speaking for Southern India) where you're likely to find cooking that uses only indigenous (pre-chilli -- ergo pre 16th century) ingredients is any kind of Hindu religious ceremony or celebration associated with death, be it a funeral or a death anniversary. That stuff tastes OK, some of it is great. All told, I'd rather have food tainted by "modern" ingredients than not. Edit: qualified the "celebrations and ceremonies" bit
- elangoc 5y ago
  The thing about chili peppers is that they're not healthy (have medicinal benefits) in the way peppercorn and long pepper do. Capsaicin can be harmful in large quantities, IIUC. There are South Indian foods and snacks like venpongal and methu vadai that use whole peppercorn, not chili peppers. Tomato is another colonialism byproduct, but there are still people who make versions that use lemons instead of tomatoes. A common homemade drink for sick people is made from grinding dried ginger, coriander seeds, and black pepper. These are all daily foods. But you're right, few households or restaurants are 100% free of these 400 year old import crops. Obviously, chili pepper is used where peppercorn or ground black pepper used to be, for the reasons in the parent comment. It also makes sense that black pepper would have been used in various dishes because it enhances the potency of the medicinal properties of turmeric by an order of magnitude. It wouldn't be hard to go back to black pepper, I imagine, with a little retooling of recipes to rebalance flavors.
  - dtgriscom 5y ago
    > Capsaicin can be harmful in large quantities, IIUC. Citation?
    - grendelt 5y ago
      > Citation? Pepper spray. ;)
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        Pepper spray is used because it's really painful but isn't actually harmful.
        grendelt 5y ago
        Well too much of anything is harmful. If it isn't, it isn't "too much".
        qart 5y ago
        In the same vein, too much of anything creates black holes.
        dtgriscom 5y ago
        Adding so much pepper you get a black hole would definitely risk your tip.
  - mangamadaiyan 5y ago
    I don't subscribe to the opinion that all "imports" are bad, and that everything indigenous was miraculous and glorious. For goodness' sake, you probably typed your message on a Chinese-made device in a language that is not your mother tongue, as did I. That doesn't make us less of anything, does it? Even the quintessentially southern Idli is rumoured to be a 12th century import brought down to the south by migrating Saurashtrians. (Mentioning this over other theories, since it seems to have the strongest documentary evidence). That isn't going to stop me enjoying my Idli with Sambar (which too is apparently a culinary import!). By and large, cultural exchange makes the world a richer place. Are there unsavoury parts to human history? Yes. Even the Cholas (for example) conquered and colonized lands far away from where they were born, did they not?
walrus01 5y ago
Something interesting to think about is that the potato has become an essential and staple food in some places like the central mountain highlands of Afghanistan, but it didn't exist there prior to sailing ship contact between the "new world" and "old world". How exactly the potato made it there from Spanish, Portugeuse and early English expeditions around 1500, and the lag time until it became commonplace there I am not quite clear.
- na85 5y ago
  No doubt it was traded along the remaining fragments of the Silk Road. Some routes persisted into the 1700s.

by sfifs 5y ago

chupchap 5y ago

Pepper is still used a lot in Kerala, but I agree with you that red and green chilies are used more commonly.

mangamadaiyan 5y ago

Well, chilli grows far more easily than black pepper, and consequently is far more affordable, even today. Secondly, it takes far more black pepper by weight to induce any kind of burn. Thirdly, they taste very different. The widespread use of chilli as a spice in Indian cooking would also have an economic aspect to it, I'm sure. Fun fact: the one place (speaking for Southern India) where you're likely to find cooking that uses only indigenous (pre-chilli -- ergo pre 16th century) ingredients is any kind of Hindu religious ceremony or celebration associated with death, be it a funeral or a death anniversary. That stuff tastes OK, some of it is great. All told, I'd rather have food tainted by "modern" ingredients than not. Edit: qualified the "celebrations and ceremonies" bit

elangoc 5y ago
The thing about chili peppers is that they're not healthy (have medicinal benefits) in the way peppercorn and long pepper do. Capsaicin can be harmful in large quantities, IIUC. There are South Indian foods and snacks like venpongal and methu vadai that use whole peppercorn, not chili peppers. Tomato is another colonialism byproduct, but there are still people who make versions that use lemons instead of tomatoes. A common homemade drink for sick people is made from grinding dried ginger, coriander seeds, and black pepper. These are all daily foods. But you're right, few households or restaurants are 100% free of these 400 year old import crops. Obviously, chili pepper is used where peppercorn or ground black pepper used to be, for the reasons in the parent comment. It also makes sense that black pepper would have been used in various dishes because it enhances the potency of the medicinal properties of turmeric by an order of magnitude. It wouldn't be hard to go back to black pepper, I imagine, with a little retooling of recipes to rebalance flavors.
- dtgriscom 5y ago
  > Capsaicin can be harmful in large quantities, IIUC. Citation?
  - grendelt 5y ago
    > Citation? Pepper spray. ;)
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Pepper spray is used because it's really painful but isn't actually harmful.
      - grendelt 5y ago
        Well too much of anything is harmful. If it isn't, it isn't "too much".
        qart 5y ago
        In the same vein, too much of anything creates black holes.
        dtgriscom 5y ago
        Adding so much pepper you get a black hole would definitely risk your tip.
- mangamadaiyan 5y ago
  I don't subscribe to the opinion that all "imports" are bad, and that everything indigenous was miraculous and glorious. For goodness' sake, you probably typed your message on a Chinese-made device in a language that is not your mother tongue, as did I. That doesn't make us less of anything, does it? Even the quintessentially southern Idli is rumoured to be a 12th century import brought down to the south by migrating Saurashtrians. (Mentioning this over other theories, since it seems to have the strongest documentary evidence). That isn't going to stop me enjoying my Idli with Sambar (which too is apparently a culinary import!). By and large, cultural exchange makes the world a richer place. Are there unsavoury parts to human history? Yes. Even the Cholas (for example) conquered and colonized lands far away from where they were born, did they not?

walrus01 5y ago

Something interesting to think about is that the potato has become an essential and staple food in some places like the central mountain highlands of Afghanistan, but it didn't exist there prior to sailing ship contact between the "new world" and "old world". How exactly the potato made it there from Spanish, Portugeuse and early English expeditions around 1500, and the lag time until it became commonplace there I am not quite clear.

na85 5y ago
No doubt it was traded along the remaining fragments of the Silk Road. Some routes persisted into the 1700s.