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My approach is to employ folks with enthusiasm. If they're teachable, they'll figure out whatever pile of tools they get thrown into on the first task. Then the

My approach is to employ folks with enthusiasm. If they're teachable, they'll figure out whatever pile of tools they get thrown into on the first task. Then they'll have some skills and the next task will seem less daunting. Of course some mentoring is useful. But just the stuff that's pertinent to the task at hand; concrete help that gets them moving forward. Because, somebody is paying for results. And because producing results has a very positive effect on confidence. I just offered work yesterday to a young person helping me at a big box store. I mentioned I was buying a device to test an Android build, and they got excited and started making cogent comments about the tool chain and devices available. I game them my card, and when they graduate in 3 months (from a local community college) I'll find them work on a client's contract. The first project will cost me more than I earn from subcontracting them (because it takes me away from my high-rate work I would otherwise be billing). Maybe break even by the 2nd. But it's a sort of enlightenened-self-interest thing. If young people get into the field, everybody benefits. And of course as an old guy with resources, I can afford to take some risks. Because it's everybody's job to look out for the other guy.

financetechbro 5y ago
I wish there were more people out there like you. You sound like a great mentor / boss
moonchrome 5y ago
Have you actually been through this before ? I ask because my experience wasn't the same so I'm interested in other perspectives. One experience that jumps to mind right away - a few years back I was in charge of mentoring a group of interns. The thinkering/enthusiastic guy was smart and reminded me of myself at that stage - but I was a terrible employee at that point and it took a lot of failing to get productive, and this guy had all the same faults - overcomplicated things, didn't focus at task at hand, wasn't paying attention to requirement details... all this made him unreliable and a pain to work with. There was one guy in the group who was average capability/enthusiasm but was hard working and focused. Wasn't the fastest to figure things out but if I left him with a problem I could see he put effort and tried to pay attention.
- eatonphil 5y ago
  Reminds me of myself too. Very enthusiastic, loved to code and built over complicated stuff (I can only hope I've stopped or do so less). But I do still most enjoy working with enthusiastic people as long as they've totally failed a few times, to know their own weakness.
- ljm 5y ago
  It sounds a bit like you got things the wrong way around. The guy who reminded you of yourself needed more mentoring, and the other guy was doing just fine.
  - randallsquared 5y ago
    ...isn't that what they said?
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    I think the issue is that if you're smart and haven't failed yet it's hard to internalise such feedback/criticism in a constructive manner (when you're usually right it's easy to assume you're always right). Giving someone the opportunity in which they are likely going to fail over some who's just going to do what's necessary is hard.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  I've done this dozens of times. Somebody needs a break, and I have an opportunity. It's not a zero-sum game. That's the realization I made very early in my career.
nitwit005 5y ago
Enthusiasm is perhaps the easiest thing to fake in an interview, and something many of us fake automatically, as smiling and seeming engaged is something a lot of us learn to do when meeting new people. I doubt it correlates with productivity outside of something like a sales role. Most of the world's work seems to get done by people who don't appear particularly enthused.
- mcs_ 5y ago
  > Most of the world's work seems to get done by people who don't appear particularly enthused. Interesting! Can you share some sources to get deeper here? Until now, I thought apathy wasn't a sign of productivity.
  - nitwit005 5y ago
    Consult your own memory? Not being enthused doesn't imply you're totally apathetic. We all do plenty of things we don't enjoy, and aren't interested in, because it needs to get done.
    - mcs_ 5y ago
      > Most of the world's work seems to get done > Consult your own memory? For sure, I can use my personal truth to answer my question. Still, vague information, including the entire working population, has been mentioned. I was genuinely interested in seeing the source, nothing else, but thanks.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  Reminds me a bit of this essay: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19877916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19877916 Production engineering can be “pedantic,” and “boring.” Lots of punchlists, and “polishing the fenders.”
nsonha 5y ago
> My approach is to employ folks with enthusiasm this approach is useless for when your actual goal is to spark enthusiasm, such as in... teaching

financetechbro 5y ago

I wish there were more people out there like you. You sound like a great mentor / boss

moonchrome 5y ago

Have you actually been through this before ? I ask because my experience wasn't the same so I'm interested in other perspectives. One experience that jumps to mind right away - a few years back I was in charge of mentoring a group of interns. The thinkering/enthusiastic guy was smart and reminded me of myself at that stage - but I was a terrible employee at that point and it took a lot of failing to get productive, and this guy had all the same faults - overcomplicated things, didn't focus at task at hand, wasn't paying attention to requirement details... all this made him unreliable and a pain to work with. There was one guy in the group who was average capability/enthusiasm but was hard working and focused. Wasn't the fastest to figure things out but if I left him with a problem I could see he put effort and tried to pay attention.

eatonphil 5y ago
Reminds me of myself too. Very enthusiastic, loved to code and built over complicated stuff (I can only hope I've stopped or do so less). But I do still most enjoy working with enthusiastic people as long as they've totally failed a few times, to know their own weakness.
ljm 5y ago
It sounds a bit like you got things the wrong way around. The guy who reminded you of yourself needed more mentoring, and the other guy was doing just fine.
- randallsquared 5y ago
  ...isn't that what they said?
- moonchrome 5y ago
  I think the issue is that if you're smart and haven't failed yet it's hard to internalise such feedback/criticism in a constructive manner (when you're usually right it's easy to assume you're always right). Giving someone the opportunity in which they are likely going to fail over some who's just going to do what's necessary is hard.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
I've done this dozens of times. Somebody needs a break, and I have an opportunity. It's not a zero-sum game. That's the realization I made very early in my career.

nitwit005 5y ago

Enthusiasm is perhaps the easiest thing to fake in an interview, and something many of us fake automatically, as smiling and seeming engaged is something a lot of us learn to do when meeting new people. I doubt it correlates with productivity outside of something like a sales role. Most of the world's work seems to get done by people who don't appear particularly enthused.

mcs_ 5y ago
> Most of the world's work seems to get done by people who don't appear particularly enthused. Interesting! Can you share some sources to get deeper here? Until now, I thought apathy wasn't a sign of productivity.
- nitwit005 5y ago
  Consult your own memory? Not being enthused doesn't imply you're totally apathetic. We all do plenty of things we don't enjoy, and aren't interested in, because it needs to get done.
  - mcs_ 5y ago
    > Most of the world's work seems to get done > Consult your own memory? For sure, I can use my personal truth to answer my question. Still, vague information, including the entire working population, has been mentioned. I was genuinely interested in seeing the source, nothing else, but thanks.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
Reminds me a bit of this essay: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19877916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19877916 Production engineering can be “pedantic,” and “boring.” Lots of punchlists, and “polishing the fenders.”

nsonha 5y ago

> My approach is to employ folks with enthusiasm this approach is useless for when your actual goal is to spark enthusiasm, such as in... teaching