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The NRC said "yes" to 4 new AP1000 reactors in Georgia and South Carolina more than 10 years ago. They were all supposed to be completed years ago. The South Ca

The NRC said "yes" to 4 new AP1000 reactors in Georgia and South Carolina more than 10 years ago. They were all supposed to be completed years ago. The South Carolina project was abandoned after cost and schedule blowouts. The Georgia project continues to chug forward despite similar cost and schedule blowouts. Here's a brief synopsis of the Georgia project: On August 26, 2009, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) issued an Early Site Permit and a Limited Work Authorization. Limited construction at the new reactor sites began, with Unit 3 then expected to be operational in 2016, followed by Unit 4 in 2017, pending final issuance of the Combined Construction and Operating License by the NRC. These dates have since slipped to 2022 and 2023 for Units 3 and 4, respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant#Units_3_and_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Pla...

jjoonathan 5y ago
Thanks for the context! Yeah, that syncs up better with my intuition: disasters plus bad economic timing killed the industry in the 80s and it hasn't gotten back on its feet because big projects are hard enough with momentum and the industry has to start over from zero. Here's hoping they can get back on their feet!
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Westinghouse Electric Company (the reactor manufacturer) took over construction management in 2015 after the first constructor botched schedules and costs. Westinghouse subcontracted to Fluor. In 2016, adding Bechtel. In 2017, Westinghouse declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy from construction losses, and the final owner Southern Company reselects Bechtel as the construction manager. Current operational date looks like 3Q 2022, and on track. tl;dr - Don't allow megaproject management experience to atrophy. The US military learned this (see: how the Navy builds carriers and nuclear subs). Have a prime and a secondary. Rotate. And, for god's sake keep the pipeline full. Skills atrophy and knowledge is forgotten.
PaulHoule 5y ago
The South Carolina reactors were abandoned. Vogtle looks on track to spin up this year. Vogtle was held up a long time because the index reactor of the type in China was held up while the factories were taking a while to figure out how to make the parts. In so far as a water reactor could be practical (awful economics of the steam turbine and steam generators) the AP1000 looks pretty good.
ellyagg 5y ago
Right, but one interpreation of this fact is that they set the bar for compliance too high, so it's almost impossible to finish a reactor in a financially feasible way. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way for our society to overcome the apparent moral high ground that nuclear skpetics hold. Nuclear disastors are too good at capturing the imagination and all a skeptic has to say is "you can never be too safe." Meanwhile, we claim that our reliance on fossil fuels is a disastor, but if it's not enough of a disastor to compel us to make nuclear regulatorily viable, how much of a disaster can it really be?
- dieortin 5y ago
  It not being financially feasible to finish a reactor and comply with the regulations doesn’t mean they’re set too high. Maybe it just means you can’t have safe AND financially feasible nuclear right now.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    It actually does since other countries are actually building nuclear plants. I bet if you traced through the NRC membership you would find government malaise and industry connections stopping new reactor designs from making their way through.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
How is it that four AP1000 reactors are built and running in China, that the companies building nuclear reactors have a long and apparently successful history of providing reactors to the US Navy, and yet trying to build two in the US bankrupts the company?
- philipkglass 5y ago
  There used to be four under construction in the US. Those in South Carolina were left partially built instead of spending even more money trying to complete them after the project went off the rails. Regional newspapers have gone into great depth explaining what went wrong. Here's a recent article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about problems building the Georgia reactors: "How Georgia nuclear project’s big finish went so wrong" https://www.ajc.com/news/business/how-georgia-nuclear-projects-big-finish-went-so-wrong/NWPE4XPG6NC5JJTMYTVJK4W2NQ/ https://www.ajc.com/news/business/how-georgia-nuclear-projec... There were even worse problems in South Carolina that actually led to federal criminal convictions: "Former Westinghouse Executive Charged with Conspiracy, Fraud in Connection with V.C. Summer Nuclear Project" Former Westinghouse Electric Co. Senior Vice President Jeffrey A. Benjamin was charged with 16 felony counts, including conspiracy, wire fraud, securities fraud, and causing a publicly traded company to keep a false record, for his part in failing to truthfully report information regarding construction of new nuclear units at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant in South Carolina. Benjamin is the fourth individual to be charged in the ongoing federal investigation. Former SCANA CEO Kevin Marsh, former SCANA Executive Vice President Stephen Byrne, and former Westinghouse Vice President Carl Churchman have all pleaded guilty to federal felony charges for their roles in the matter. https://www.powermag.com/former-westinghouse-executive-charged-with-conspiracy-fraud-in-connection-with-v-c-summer-nuclear-project/ https://www.powermag.com/former-westinghouse-executive-charg... Here's a big investigative series that the Charleston Post and Courier did about the problems with the VC Summer expansion in South Carolina: https://www.postandcourier.com/business/vc_summer_nuclear_project/ https://www.postandcourier.com/business/vc_summer_nuclear_pr...
- bobsmooth 5y ago
  If I had to guess, neither China nor the US Navy care about generating a profit from the reactors.

jjoonathan 5y ago

Thanks for the context! Yeah, that syncs up better with my intuition: disasters plus bad economic timing killed the industry in the 80s and it hasn't gotten back on its feet because big projects are hard enough with momentum and the industry has to start over from zero. Here's hoping they can get back on their feet!

ethbr0 5y ago
Westinghouse Electric Company (the reactor manufacturer) took over construction management in 2015 after the first constructor botched schedules and costs. Westinghouse subcontracted to Fluor. In 2016, adding Bechtel. In 2017, Westinghouse declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy from construction losses, and the final owner Southern Company reselects Bechtel as the construction manager. Current operational date looks like 3Q 2022, and on track. tl;dr - Don't allow megaproject management experience to atrophy. The US military learned this (see: how the Navy builds carriers and nuclear subs). Have a prime and a secondary. Rotate. And, for god's sake keep the pipeline full. Skills atrophy and knowledge is forgotten.

PaulHoule 5y ago

The South Carolina reactors were abandoned. Vogtle looks on track to spin up this year. Vogtle was held up a long time because the index reactor of the type in China was held up while the factories were taking a while to figure out how to make the parts. In so far as a water reactor could be practical (awful economics of the steam turbine and steam generators) the AP1000 looks pretty good.

ellyagg 5y ago

Right, but one interpreation of this fact is that they set the bar for compliance too high, so it's almost impossible to finish a reactor in a financially feasible way. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way for our society to overcome the apparent moral high ground that nuclear skpetics hold. Nuclear disastors are too good at capturing the imagination and all a skeptic has to say is "you can never be too safe." Meanwhile, we claim that our reliance on fossil fuels is a disastor, but if it's not enough of a disastor to compel us to make nuclear regulatorily viable, how much of a disaster can it really be?

dieortin 5y ago
It not being financially feasible to finish a reactor and comply with the regulations doesn’t mean they’re set too high. Maybe it just means you can’t have safe AND financially feasible nuclear right now.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  It actually does since other countries are actually building nuclear plants. I bet if you traced through the NRC membership you would find government malaise and industry connections stopping new reactor designs from making their way through.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

How is it that four AP1000 reactors are built and running in China, that the companies building nuclear reactors have a long and apparently successful history of providing reactors to the US Navy, and yet trying to build two in the US bankrupts the company?

philipkglass 5y ago
There used to be four under construction in the US. Those in South Carolina were left partially built instead of spending even more money trying to complete them after the project went off the rails. Regional newspapers have gone into great depth explaining what went wrong. Here's a recent article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about problems building the Georgia reactors: "How Georgia nuclear project’s big finish went so wrong" https://www.ajc.com/news/business/how-georgia-nuclear-projects-big-finish-went-so-wrong/NWPE4XPG6NC5JJTMYTVJK4W2NQ/ https://www.ajc.com/news/business/how-georgia-nuclear-projec... There were even worse problems in South Carolina that actually led to federal criminal convictions: "Former Westinghouse Executive Charged with Conspiracy, Fraud in Connection with V.C. Summer Nuclear Project" Former Westinghouse Electric Co. Senior Vice President Jeffrey A. Benjamin was charged with 16 felony counts, including conspiracy, wire fraud, securities fraud, and causing a publicly traded company to keep a false record, for his part in failing to truthfully report information regarding construction of new nuclear units at the V.C. Summer nuclear plant in South Carolina. Benjamin is the fourth individual to be charged in the ongoing federal investigation. Former SCANA CEO Kevin Marsh, former SCANA Executive Vice President Stephen Byrne, and former Westinghouse Vice President Carl Churchman have all pleaded guilty to federal felony charges for their roles in the matter. https://www.powermag.com/former-westinghouse-executive-charged-with-conspiracy-fraud-in-connection-with-v-c-summer-nuclear-project/ https://www.powermag.com/former-westinghouse-executive-charg... Here's a big investigative series that the Charleston Post and Courier did about the problems with the VC Summer expansion in South Carolina: https://www.postandcourier.com/business/vc_summer_nuclear_project/ https://www.postandcourier.com/business/vc_summer_nuclear_pr...
bobsmooth 5y ago
If I had to guess, neither China nor the US Navy care about generating a profit from the reactors.