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I'd recommend _Never Split The Difference_, by former Chief FBI Hostage Negotiator Chris Voss. Very fun read and widely applicable. Spoiler: His advice is not

by mawise 5y ago

I'd recommend _Never Split The Difference_, by former Chief FBI Hostage Negotiator Chris Voss. Very fun read and widely applicable. Spoiler: His advice is not to strong-arm, but to build trust with your counterpart.

laserlight 5y ago
Hostage negotiation is a game played once between parties. Most of daily life situations are repeated games, in which dynamics are different. I found that the author was biased by their experience in one-off games and their suggestions wouldn’t generalize well into repeated games. Unfortunately, there is no acknowledgement of this until the very end of the book. Still a good read though.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well?
  - BeetleB 5y ago
    > Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well? No. In a situation where you're thinking of leaving, you are negotiating with your manager. That's a relationship that will continue if you stay.
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      Ah, you mean that one, not potential prospects. Yep I agree on one hand but on the other, getting to that point is being 95% out the door anyway. Even if you stay, many managers and businessmen have very persistent bad memory and will remember you as the guy who twisted their hands or whatever. I've experienced this a long time ago; some of these people are very resentful and vengeful. Often times staying at a place where you have thrown the "I'll leave for a better offer if you don't budge" card on the table successfully... is not worth it.
- karmajunkie 5y ago
  my wife and i actually read that as part learning to deal with my mentally unstable ex-wife. i thought it was good for repeated performances as well.
ethbr0 5y ago
Also, I saw a lot of parallels with Playing to Win by David Sirlin [0], about competitive gaming. One of Sirlin's points is that the most common reason casual players lose is because they restrict themselves to a subset of legal moves. I.e. they play the game they think exists, or they think is "fair", rather than the rules as written. Transposed into negotiation, Voss feels very similar to me. Whereas most people get distracted with the minutiae, or their feelings about the negotiation, or 1,000 other non-rule parts... he treats negotiation as game. Not in the sense of "fun" or "lighthearted" (he worked for the FBI!), but in the sense of understanding all the actual rules, and using those rules to win. [0] https://www.sirlin.net/ptw https://www.sirlin.net/ptw
- WJW 5y ago
  I hadn't thought of the connection yet, but now that you mention it there are indeed a lot of parallels. Thank you for pointing this out! :)
BeetleB 5y ago
Terrible book that has some gems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966 Edit: Yes dang, I did copy/paste a prior comment of mine, but it seemed silly to post a link to a comment that itself is just links!

by mawise 5y ago

laserlight 5y ago

Hostage negotiation is a game played once between parties. Most of daily life situations are repeated games, in which dynamics are different. I found that the author was biased by their experience in one-off games and their suggestions wouldn’t generalize well into repeated games. Unfortunately, there is no acknowledgement of this until the very end of the book. Still a good read though.

pdimitar 5y ago
Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well?
- BeetleB 5y ago
  > Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well? No. In a situation where you're thinking of leaving, you are negotiating with your manager. That's a relationship that will continue if you stay.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Ah, you mean that one, not potential prospects. Yep I agree on one hand but on the other, getting to that point is being 95% out the door anyway. Even if you stay, many managers and businessmen have very persistent bad memory and will remember you as the guy who twisted their hands or whatever. I've experienced this a long time ago; some of these people are very resentful and vengeful. Often times staying at a place where you have thrown the "I'll leave for a better offer if you don't budge" card on the table successfully... is not worth it.
karmajunkie 5y ago
my wife and i actually read that as part learning to deal with my mentally unstable ex-wife. i thought it was good for repeated performances as well.

ethbr0 5y ago

Also, I saw a lot of parallels with Playing to Win by David Sirlin [0], about competitive gaming. One of Sirlin's points is that the most common reason casual players lose is because they restrict themselves to a subset of legal moves. I.e. they play the game they think exists, or they think is "fair", rather than the rules as written. Transposed into negotiation, Voss feels very similar to me. Whereas most people get distracted with the minutiae, or their feelings about the negotiation, or 1,000 other non-rule parts... he treats negotiation as game. Not in the sense of "fun" or "lighthearted" (he worked for the FBI!), but in the sense of understanding all the actual rules, and using those rules to win. [0] https://www.sirlin.net/ptw https://www.sirlin.net/ptw

WJW 5y ago
I hadn't thought of the connection yet, but now that you mention it there are indeed a lot of parallels. Thank you for pointing this out! :)

BeetleB 5y ago

Terrible book that has some gems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966 Edit: Yes dang, I did copy/paste a prior comment of mine, but it seemed silly to post a link to a comment that itself is just links!