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To me, I saw it as "Bentham's panopticon reified" and the rest was flourish. I'd be interested in someones view of the hidden depth of it. What grabbed you abo

To me, I saw it as "Bentham's panopticon reified" and the rest was flourish. I'd be interested in someones view of the hidden depth of it. What grabbed you about it at the time?

nomadpenguin 5y ago
"Bentham's panopticon reified" is more characteristic of Foucault's concept of disciplinary societies, which defined the 20th century. Deleuze's project here is to extend it into the 21st century, where the disciplinary society changes into "societies of control". While both disciplinary and control societies rely on surveillance, disciplinary societies create compliance through the threat (if not the execution) of punishment, while control societies create compliance through nudges and dark patterns. Disciplinary societies have centralized locations of power (the factory, the school, and the barracks), while in control societies, power is decentralized -- both everywhere and nowhere at once (algorithms, workplace encouraged education and health initiatives, etc). Furthermore, while disciplinary power creates classes of individuals to control and marginalize (based on race, class, etc.), under neoliberal control societies, all individuals are prima facie accepted. This is not because the control society is less coercive, but because control is exerted at the sub-individual level -- think how advertising algorithms assign each person a constellation of tags which are used to structure their online experience.
steveklabnik 5y ago
I mean, in one sense, a significant amount of philosophy is "some other person's work but with a twist." "All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato." and all that. But sure, Bentham is a huge influence here; Deleuze is moving forward Foucault's "disciplinary society" concept into the "control society" concept presented here, and Foucault's use of the panopticon is such a meme that even folks who aren't particularly into this stuff often know that it exists. My sibling commentor has it exactly right: > disciplinary societies create compliance through the threat (if not the execution) of punishment, while control societies create compliance through nudges and dark patterns. There's like, a thousand different reasons that this essay meant something to me at the time, but one of them was that I happened to come across this at the time that the industry was getting really into gamification. To continue to piggyback off of nomadpenguin: > in control societies, power is decentralized -- both everywhere and nowhere at once (algorithms, workplace encouraged education and health initiatives, etc). I didn't really appreciate the increasing amount (in both number and degree) of algorithmic control over our lives until reading this essay. I mean, on some level I saw it happening, but I really, truly started seeing it after this.
- motohagiography 5y ago
  Very interesting! I didn't separate those two, as I think the discipline/control dichotomy presumed an unspoken framework I wasn't quite onside with. I'm interpreting that the control society is very similar to Arendt's totalitarianism, where the discipline society could be on the spectrum of mere open fascism or republican freedoms based on simplistic rules. I'm somewhat relieved readers of Deluze have these critical tools as well, as I hope it will click at some point that we're dealing with something much greater than our respective outgroups.

To me, I saw it as "Bentham's panopticon reified" and the rest was flourish. I'd be interested in someones view of the hidden depth of it. What grabbed you about it at the time?

nomadpenguin 5y ago

"Bentham's panopticon reified" is more characteristic of Foucault's concept of disciplinary societies, which defined the 20th century. Deleuze's project here is to extend it into the 21st century, where the disciplinary society changes into "societies of control". While both disciplinary and control societies rely on surveillance, disciplinary societies create compliance through the threat (if not the execution) of punishment, while control societies create compliance through nudges and dark patterns. Disciplinary societies have centralized locations of power (the factory, the school, and the barracks), while in control societies, power is decentralized -- both everywhere and nowhere at once (algorithms, workplace encouraged education and health initiatives, etc). Furthermore, while disciplinary power creates classes of individuals to control and marginalize (based on race, class, etc.), under neoliberal control societies, all individuals are prima facie accepted. This is not because the control society is less coercive, but because control is exerted at the sub-individual level -- think how advertising algorithms assign each person a constellation of tags which are used to structure their online experience.

steveklabnik 5y ago

I mean, in one sense, a significant amount of philosophy is "some other person's work but with a twist." "All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato." and all that. But sure, Bentham is a huge influence here; Deleuze is moving forward Foucault's "disciplinary society" concept into the "control society" concept presented here, and Foucault's use of the panopticon is such a meme that even folks who aren't particularly into this stuff often know that it exists. My sibling commentor has it exactly right: > disciplinary societies create compliance through the threat (if not the execution) of punishment, while control societies create compliance through nudges and dark patterns. There's like, a thousand different reasons that this essay meant something to me at the time, but one of them was that I happened to come across this at the time that the industry was getting really into gamification. To continue to piggyback off of nomadpenguin: > in control societies, power is decentralized -- both everywhere and nowhere at once (algorithms, workplace encouraged education and health initiatives, etc). I didn't really appreciate the increasing amount (in both number and degree) of algorithmic control over our lives until reading this essay. I mean, on some level I saw it happening, but I really, truly started seeing it after this.

motohagiography 5y ago
Very interesting! I didn't separate those two, as I think the discipline/control dichotomy presumed an unspoken framework I wasn't quite onside with. I'm interpreting that the control society is very similar to Arendt's totalitarianism, where the discipline society could be on the spectrum of mere open fascism or republican freedoms based on simplistic rules. I'm somewhat relieved readers of Deluze have these critical tools as well, as I hope it will click at some point that we're dealing with something much greater than our respective outgroups.