4 ms·

Just a heads up for non-portuguese speakers: brazilian portuguese and european portuguese can differ quite extremely in pronunciation. Then there's also african

by paol 5y ago

Just a heads up for non-portuguese speakers: brazilian portuguese and european portuguese can differ quite extremely in pronunciation. Then there's also african portuguese pronunciations, though to my ear those tend to be closer to the european. The article is written from a brazilian standpoint, so keep that in mind when comparing with your own experiences of the language.

lucis 5y ago
That's right, this is for Portuguese, not Portuguese (PT) /s Recently, there was a polemic in social media that Portuguese mothers were worried their kids were only speaking "Brazilian", due to the dominance of Brazilian content creators in Youtube, Instagram, TikTok... [1]: https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/mundo/2021/11/4962302-jornal-portugues-denuncia-que-criancas-do-pais-so-falam-brasileiro.html https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/mundo/2021/11/4962302-... (Portuguese)
- samueloph 5y ago
  Yes, it's funny in a way that Brazilian culture is influencing Portuguese's other than the reverse (since Portugal colonized Brazil). I guess during the internet era, having a bigger population is a big factor on "culture pressure" or whatnot (there's more Brazilian online content than Portuguese, or any other lusophone country).
  - simtel20 5y ago
    It seems very similar to the US influence on other English speaking cultures: the African diaspora influence on all aspects of culture in both countries - language, sport (the case has been made that boxing, basketball soccer/football and more are all directly influenced by asthetic stylings of African origin), music (blues, rock, samba, forro, hip-hop, soul, funk both the Brazilian and American types) literature (the places and people written about by Jorge Amado, Machado de Assis, ToninMorriaon) etc. and in my experience the ruling castes of both countries have sort of devauled or ignored the absolute saturation of these cultural influences over generations even as they have become the foundation which popular culture is built on and exported from both countries.
- ginja 5y ago
  I'm Portuguese and I share this concern - PT-BR does have a lot of differences in vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation. Pronunciation bothers us the least actually, but other things are weird and/or plain wrong for us: - Lots of weird words adapted from English like "time" (pronounced "tee-me") which means team in PT-BR. Portuguese has a fine word for that already - equipa ("equipe" in BR) - and most of us speak good English so "time" is beyond weird for us. - Wrong verb conjugations are used in informal conversation, e.g. "tu vai à praia?" (correct would be "tu vais à praia?" and generally we'd omit "tu" [you] because it adds no useful information) - Many Brazilians seemingly think "mas" (but) and "mais" (more) are the same word because they pronounce it similarly and thus end up using "mais" for everything, even in writing - Different usage of pronouns, e.g. "eu dou-lhe" in PT vs "eu lhe dou" in BR (or worse, "eu dou a você" - sounds like caveman language plus "você" is considered rude in PT) Vocabulary differences make for some really funny misunderstandings sometimes though. My Brazilian neighbor's kid was really confused and scared when she was told she needed to "levar uma pica" (get a shot, as in an injection/vaccine) - in Brazil this same sentence means "take a dick". I hadn't laughed that hard in a long time.
  - EL_Loco 5y ago
    Sorry to ask you this, and please fell free to not respond. But I have wanted to move to Portugal with my wife and kids for quite some time, but the large number of Brazilians linving and moving there bum me out to an extent. Mostly, I don't know what is the general feeling towards Brazilians in Portugal (I went there a few times, and absolutely loved it, but it was travel, not living). I'm not a fan of Brazilian mainstream culture, mostly. We are outgoing, friendly and warm, sure, and those qualities I embrace and celebrate, however, there are many negatives to Brazilian culture that are widespread (anti-intellectualism, veiled prejudice, sexism etc). I don't know what most Brazilians in Portugal are like, and I know that it will vary greatly, but how much hostility is there towards Brazilians? Every person I met in Portugal was pretty nice, and some were downright great people, and I would love to live there, but I'm afraid my kids might have a bad experience from being Brazilian immigrants in school, etc.
    - pcardoso 5y ago
- mprovost 5y ago
  When Sesame Street was first popular in the 1970s my great aunt in Massachusetts famously forbade her grandchildren from watching it because she didn't want them to learn how to speak like New Yorkers.
forinti 5y ago
Brazilians have a hard time understanding European Portuguese (I think that pronoun placement is a major factor other that the actual phonetics - they just don't expect certain phrases). And I've also heard from Portuguese that they find Brazilians easier to understand than some of their own compatriots, especially now that telenovelas have spread Brazilian vocabulary in Portugal.
- paol 5y ago
  Yes, I think the asymmetry is entirely due to Portuguese people being regularly exposed to Brazilian pronunciation, whereas the reverse is much rarer. In the late 80's & 90's Portugal started importing TV programs from Brazil. Since the 2000's this happens much less, but that has been replaced by a large number of Brazilian immigrants settling in Portugal. As far as I can tell there are no equivalent influences going in the other direction, so Brazilians are rarely exposed to Portuguese pronunciation.
  - SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago
    That is certainly a factor. But in my personal experience one of the biggest hurdles for Brazilians is the fact that Portuguese have a much shorter vowel pronunciation, so the separation between syllables is much less pronounced. In contrast, some Brazilian accents have comically long vowels, so it sounds like they are spelling out every word.
    - EL_Loco 5y ago
      It's easy to have a brazilian sound like she's speaking portuguese from Portugal: just stop pronouncing the vowels. If you're brazilian, try it. It actually works.
      - simtel20 5y ago
        I feel like I have to start saying them, then swallow and leave an empty space instead. I can't say I like it.

by paol 5y ago

lucis 5y ago

That's right, this is for Portuguese, not Portuguese (PT) /s Recently, there was a polemic in social media that Portuguese mothers were worried their kids were only speaking "Brazilian", due to the dominance of Brazilian content creators in Youtube, Instagram, TikTok... [1]: https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/mundo/2021/11/4962302-jornal-portugues-denuncia-que-criancas-do-pais-so-falam-brasileiro.html https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/mundo/2021/11/4962302-... (Portuguese)

samueloph 5y ago
Yes, it's funny in a way that Brazilian culture is influencing Portuguese's other than the reverse (since Portugal colonized Brazil). I guess during the internet era, having a bigger population is a big factor on "culture pressure" or whatnot (there's more Brazilian online content than Portuguese, or any other lusophone country).
- simtel20 5y ago
  It seems very similar to the US influence on other English speaking cultures: the African diaspora influence on all aspects of culture in both countries - language, sport (the case has been made that boxing, basketball soccer/football and more are all directly influenced by asthetic stylings of African origin), music (blues, rock, samba, forro, hip-hop, soul, funk both the Brazilian and American types) literature (the places and people written about by Jorge Amado, Machado de Assis, ToninMorriaon) etc. and in my experience the ruling castes of both countries have sort of devauled or ignored the absolute saturation of these cultural influences over generations even as they have become the foundation which popular culture is built on and exported from both countries.
ginja 5y ago
I'm Portuguese and I share this concern - PT-BR does have a lot of differences in vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation. Pronunciation bothers us the least actually, but other things are weird and/or plain wrong for us: - Lots of weird words adapted from English like "time" (pronounced "tee-me") which means team in PT-BR. Portuguese has a fine word for that already - equipa ("equipe" in BR) - and most of us speak good English so "time" is beyond weird for us. - Wrong verb conjugations are used in informal conversation, e.g. "tu vai à praia?" (correct would be "tu vais à praia?" and generally we'd omit "tu" [you] because it adds no useful information) - Many Brazilians seemingly think "mas" (but) and "mais" (more) are the same word because they pronounce it similarly and thus end up using "mais" for everything, even in writing - Different usage of pronouns, e.g. "eu dou-lhe" in PT vs "eu lhe dou" in BR (or worse, "eu dou a você" - sounds like caveman language plus "você" is considered rude in PT) Vocabulary differences make for some really funny misunderstandings sometimes though. My Brazilian neighbor's kid was really confused and scared when she was told she needed to "levar uma pica" (get a shot, as in an injection/vaccine) - in Brazil this same sentence means "take a dick". I hadn't laughed that hard in a long time.
- EL_Loco 5y ago
  Sorry to ask you this, and please fell free to not respond. But I have wanted to move to Portugal with my wife and kids for quite some time, but the large number of Brazilians linving and moving there bum me out to an extent. Mostly, I don't know what is the general feeling towards Brazilians in Portugal (I went there a few times, and absolutely loved it, but it was travel, not living). I'm not a fan of Brazilian mainstream culture, mostly. We are outgoing, friendly and warm, sure, and those qualities I embrace and celebrate, however, there are many negatives to Brazilian culture that are widespread (anti-intellectualism, veiled prejudice, sexism etc). I don't know what most Brazilians in Portugal are like, and I know that it will vary greatly, but how much hostility is there towards Brazilians? Every person I met in Portugal was pretty nice, and some were downright great people, and I would love to live there, but I'm afraid my kids might have a bad experience from being Brazilian immigrants in school, etc.
  - pcardoso 5y ago
mprovost 5y ago
When Sesame Street was first popular in the 1970s my great aunt in Massachusetts famously forbade her grandchildren from watching it because she didn't want them to learn how to speak like New Yorkers.

forinti 5y ago

Brazilians have a hard time understanding European Portuguese (I think that pronoun placement is a major factor other that the actual phonetics - they just don't expect certain phrases). And I've also heard from Portuguese that they find Brazilians easier to understand than some of their own compatriots, especially now that telenovelas have spread Brazilian vocabulary in Portugal.

paol 5y ago
Yes, I think the asymmetry is entirely due to Portuguese people being regularly exposed to Brazilian pronunciation, whereas the reverse is much rarer. In the late 80's & 90's Portugal started importing TV programs from Brazil. Since the 2000's this happens much less, but that has been replaced by a large number of Brazilian immigrants settling in Portugal. As far as I can tell there are no equivalent influences going in the other direction, so Brazilians are rarely exposed to Portuguese pronunciation.
- SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago
  That is certainly a factor. But in my personal experience one of the biggest hurdles for Brazilians is the fact that Portuguese have a much shorter vowel pronunciation, so the separation between syllables is much less pronounced. In contrast, some Brazilian accents have comically long vowels, so it sounds like they are spelling out every word.
  - EL_Loco 5y ago
    It's easy to have a brazilian sound like she's speaking portuguese from Portugal: just stop pronouncing the vowels. If you're brazilian, try it. It actually works.
    - simtel20 5y ago
      I feel like I have to start saying them, then swallow and leave an empty space instead. I can't say I like it.