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Not to contradict the individual side of your statement, but the high demand for developers in our time is closely related to the financial success of morally q

by netcan 5y ago

Not to contradict the individual side of your statement, but the high demand for developers in our time is closely related to the financial success of morally questionable practices. Data harvesting, monopolisation of bottlenecks, the whole advertising ecosystem, DRM and systems of IP/copyright domination, etc. These are the unbelievably profitable industries generating the current demand. Demand is fungible, so this doesn't mean you can't go find a job working on something else. It does however, put some perspective on it. Developers, via the current labour market, are major beneficiaries of said practices. Again, this does not contradict your comment.

asimpletune 5y ago
> the high demand for developers in our time is closely related to the financial success of morally questionable practices. I think it's more because the computer does most of the work, and that just has really good economy of scale.
gchamonlive 5y ago
I work at a company which main product is a co2 emissions management software. It is in dire need of software developers. It is hosted in Brazil, so probably not competitive in terms of salary, but that goes to say that you can find good jobs that won't hurt you morally. The alternative to making DRM is not necessarily working for Amazon or Google.
benreesman 5y ago
I very much don’t mean to single you out, and I also have deep reservations about user data collection/management, dubious labor practices in e-commerce fulfillment, gamification of options trading, etc. But to the extent that there seems to be any orthodoxy on HN around what is more and less ethical, there’s a lot of emphasis around the “unbelievably profitable” part. In my personal experience there is a world of difference between “all your data belong to us” and “pay for content by seeing this ad” which are far from joined at the hip, and to the extent that cryptocurrency has any demonstrated utility it’s pulling in yet a third direction and yet all three are often lumped together into the “trivially unethical” bucket, whereas having deep structural advantages before you’ve written much code via the YC old-boys network is not just “how the game is played”, but maybe even “living the dream”. I know I’ve personally been guilty of letting my righteous ethical indignation at X or Y get a little blurry with “it’s not right that so many programmers make xMM/year”. I don’t mean to say that you’re guilty of this (and I know you didn’t mention cryptocurrency or being a YC founder), but it is something I’m still trying to figure out a way to diplomatically add to the discussion and your comment felt like a not-insane place to do so.
- netcan 5y ago
  I agree. What is/isn't ethical isn't a trivial question, and the shades are even less trivial.

by netcan 5y ago

asimpletune 5y ago

> the high demand for developers in our time is closely related to the financial success of morally questionable practices. I think it's more because the computer does most of the work, and that just has really good economy of scale.

gchamonlive 5y ago

I work at a company which main product is a co2 emissions management software. It is in dire need of software developers. It is hosted in Brazil, so probably not competitive in terms of salary, but that goes to say that you can find good jobs that won't hurt you morally. The alternative to making DRM is not necessarily working for Amazon or Google.

benreesman 5y ago

I very much don’t mean to single you out, and I also have deep reservations about user data collection/management, dubious labor practices in e-commerce fulfillment, gamification of options trading, etc. But to the extent that there seems to be any orthodoxy on HN around what is more and less ethical, there’s a lot of emphasis around the “unbelievably profitable” part. In my personal experience there is a world of difference between “all your data belong to us” and “pay for content by seeing this ad” which are far from joined at the hip, and to the extent that cryptocurrency has any demonstrated utility it’s pulling in yet a third direction and yet all three are often lumped together into the “trivially unethical” bucket, whereas having deep structural advantages before you’ve written much code via the YC old-boys network is not just “how the game is played”, but maybe even “living the dream”. I know I’ve personally been guilty of letting my righteous ethical indignation at X or Y get a little blurry with “it’s not right that so many programmers make xMM/year”. I don’t mean to say that you’re guilty of this (and I know you didn’t mention cryptocurrency or being a YC founder), but it is something I’m still trying to figure out a way to diplomatically add to the discussion and your comment felt like a not-insane place to do so.

netcan 5y ago
I agree. What is/isn't ethical isn't a trivial question, and the shades are even less trivial.