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Yes, omicron is much worse than a common cold or the flu. Completely unvaccinated persons are still in quite a danger for life through it. The virus is known n

by _ph_ 5y ago

Yes, omicron is much worse than a common cold or the flu. Completely unvaccinated persons are still in quite a danger for life through it. The virus is known not only to cause death, but to cause organ damages even with lighter case and having likely long term effects. The whole affair isn't because he is likely a major risk to the population of Australia - that can be easily ruled out by a test, but about failing to comply with the regulations of entry, especially if there was fraud involved with his documentation. And no one understands why he didn't get vaccinated in time. Not only would that be of personal health benefit, it would make working in his profession much easier.

alkonaut 5y ago
This said - that there are some risks, one must remember that these risks exists for flu as well. There is definitely risks of long term organ damage, death, or long term symptoms from flu. So when someone asks "is this worse than the flu?", one shouldn't immediate think the question is "is this something that isn't dangerous and everyone recovers without long term damage from?". Flu can be nasty. So can several other respiratory diseases like RS. If covid fatality rate is cut to 1/10 (which optimistic reports are indicating) then one can absolutely start comparing it to the flu. But the thing is: the flu simply doesn't infect such a large part of a population at once. It's not a threat to the function of society. That's what we should be afraid of now. If this was a flu pandemic with a virus that had this infectivity, I think the situation and response around the world would be exactly the same.
Someone 5y ago
The flu also kills thousands every year. The jury is still out there, but it is possible that omicron turns out to be in about the same league as some of the more dangerous flu strains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic says the Asian flu and the Hong Kong flu epidemics killed 100,000 in the USA, at times where the population of the USA was below 200 million)
mostertoaster 5y ago
This is the whole thing that has to stop though. We bring up how deadly covid is, and how vaccinations help reduce symptoms, but no one is pointing out the most insane thing of the blatant discrimination against unvaccinated people to be denied entry to a place without proof of vaccination, even though, vaccinated people are still spreading the disease. I’m sorry but supporting this crap is insanity. You literally are taking a group of people and making them the dirty untouchables, saying “show me your papers” like the discriminative parties of the past. The weird thing is those who told blacks to get to the back of the bus or called the police on their neighbor for hiding a Jew in their basement also were as convinced as all these people who defend vaccine mandates.
- ls15 5y ago
  > called the police on their neighbor for hiding a Jew in their basement also were as convinced as all these people who defend vaccine mandates. While I would like to stay away from that comparison, there are structural similarities that cannot be denied: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/impfausweise-razzien-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/impfausweise-r... > Zeugen war laut Polizei aufgefallen, dass vor der Arztpraxis immer wieder Autos mit Kennzeichen aus dem gesamten süddeutschen Raum geparkt haben sollen. > Die Polizei klingelte in den frühen Morgenstunden: Die Beamten durchsuchten in Bayern, Baden-Württemberg, Hessen und Nordrhein-Westfalen Wohnungen von mehr als 100 Menschen, die sich falsche Impfbescheinigungen besorgt haben sollen. Die Ermittler stellten bei der Aktion unter anderem Impfausweise und Smartphones sicher. > Zudem wurde bei den Verdächtigen Blut entnommen, wie ein Sprecher der Polizei erklärte. Über einen Antikörper-Test will man nachweisen, dass sie nicht geimpft sind. Rough summary in English: Bavarian police caught a doctor who handed out fake vaccine certs. The neighbours called the police, because they noticed unusual license plates on parking cars. The police raided 100 patients' homes and took blood samples from them.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  "...blatant discrimination against unvaccinated" Damn right it is, and they ought to be discriminated against for the safety of others—and that includes me! I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. Clearly, you do not realize that this is how our governance works (or is supposed to work). (It seems that you never did civics or history at school). To enlighten you, democratic government works on the principle of a covenant that exists between the citizenry and government, which boils down to this: 'Citizens, do the right thing and obey the laws and in return we, the government, will protect you from harm and danger'. Government protects its citizens against external enemies with an army, it protects them against internal threats with a police force, and when an unseen pandemic virus threatens, it then takes many other measures to protect us citizens including introduction of special rules, quarantining and isolating those with disease etc. It has always been thus for centuries across many counties. How many instances and examples would you like? Do an internet search. Just because these facts are new to you and that you have never previously experienced a pandemic in your lifetime then it doesn't mean that such action by governments is not normal practice. Well, I can assure that it fucking-well is normal practice and that you need to get used to the fact or alternatively withdraw from society altogether. If you still do not follow then let me give you an in-your-face example that you will understand: if someone decides to walk down the main street of a city brandishing and firing an AK47 at random then citizens expect the police to arrest and demobilize him immediately (if he's unlucky then he'll likely be shot dead in the process). Well, the situation with a person loose in society who is carrying a lethal virus that can kill those who catch it only differs by fact that the person may not know that they are carrying said virus—hence general rules for everyone apply—isolation, masks, etc., etc. Now if that person is knowingly carrying the virus and then deliberately defies authority then he/she is no different to the person who is carrying the AK47 and he/she needs to be arrested and isolated immediately for the very reason that he/she is a danger to everybody that he/she comes in contact with! QED! You many think this is insanity but very thankfully, most people and most governments around the world disagree with your view. We're also very thankful for that fact that those who hold views such as yours are in the minority. For your information, those who are vaccinated are far less likely to spread the virus in anywhere near the same quantities. It is not a perfect situation but it's a damned side better scenario for an uninfected person to come in contact with a vaccinated person with the virus than one who has the virus and is not vaccinated. Whatever you may think, there is absolutely no argument against this. That's why everyone is still subject to virus hygiene rules. And in case if you've forgotten, hygiene rules have existed across society long before the arrival of COVID; these new rules are only an extension thereof. Perhaps you would like to explain why you think the way you do.

by _ph_ 5y ago

alkonaut 5y ago

This said - that there are some risks, one must remember that these risks exists for flu as well. There is definitely risks of long term organ damage, death, or long term symptoms from flu. So when someone asks "is this worse than the flu?", one shouldn't immediate think the question is "is this something that isn't dangerous and everyone recovers without long term damage from?". Flu can be nasty. So can several other respiratory diseases like RS. If covid fatality rate is cut to 1/10 (which optimistic reports are indicating) then one can absolutely start comparing it to the flu. But the thing is: the flu simply doesn't infect such a large part of a population at once. It's not a threat to the function of society. That's what we should be afraid of now. If this was a flu pandemic with a virus that had this infectivity, I think the situation and response around the world would be exactly the same.

Someone 5y ago

The flu also kills thousands every year. The jury is still out there, but it is possible that omicron turns out to be in about the same league as some of the more dangerous flu strains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic says the Asian flu and the Hong Kong flu epidemics killed 100,000 in the USA, at times where the population of the USA was below 200 million)

mostertoaster 5y ago

This is the whole thing that has to stop though. We bring up how deadly covid is, and how vaccinations help reduce symptoms, but no one is pointing out the most insane thing of the blatant discrimination against unvaccinated people to be denied entry to a place without proof of vaccination, even though, vaccinated people are still spreading the disease. I’m sorry but supporting this crap is insanity. You literally are taking a group of people and making them the dirty untouchables, saying “show me your papers” like the discriminative parties of the past. The weird thing is those who told blacks to get to the back of the bus or called the police on their neighbor for hiding a Jew in their basement also were as convinced as all these people who defend vaccine mandates.

ls15 5y ago
> called the police on their neighbor for hiding a Jew in their basement also were as convinced as all these people who defend vaccine mandates. While I would like to stay away from that comparison, there are structural similarities that cannot be denied: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/impfausweise-razzien-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/impfausweise-r... > Zeugen war laut Polizei aufgefallen, dass vor der Arztpraxis immer wieder Autos mit Kennzeichen aus dem gesamten süddeutschen Raum geparkt haben sollen. > Die Polizei klingelte in den frühen Morgenstunden: Die Beamten durchsuchten in Bayern, Baden-Württemberg, Hessen und Nordrhein-Westfalen Wohnungen von mehr als 100 Menschen, die sich falsche Impfbescheinigungen besorgt haben sollen. Die Ermittler stellten bei der Aktion unter anderem Impfausweise und Smartphones sicher. > Zudem wurde bei den Verdächtigen Blut entnommen, wie ein Sprecher der Polizei erklärte. Über einen Antikörper-Test will man nachweisen, dass sie nicht geimpft sind. Rough summary in English: Bavarian police caught a doctor who handed out fake vaccine certs. The neighbours called the police, because they noticed unusual license plates on parking cars. The police raided 100 patients' homes and took blood samples from them.
hilbert42 5y ago
"...blatant discrimination against unvaccinated" Damn right it is, and they ought to be discriminated against for the safety of others—and that includes me! I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. Clearly, you do not realize that this is how our governance works (or is supposed to work). (It seems that you never did civics or history at school). To enlighten you, democratic government works on the principle of a covenant that exists between the citizenry and government, which boils down to this: 'Citizens, do the right thing and obey the laws and in return we, the government, will protect you from harm and danger'. Government protects its citizens against external enemies with an army, it protects them against internal threats with a police force, and when an unseen pandemic virus threatens, it then takes many other measures to protect us citizens including introduction of special rules, quarantining and isolating those with disease etc. It has always been thus for centuries across many counties. How many instances and examples would you like? Do an internet search. Just because these facts are new to you and that you have never previously experienced a pandemic in your lifetime then it doesn't mean that such action by governments is not normal practice. Well, I can assure that it fucking-well is normal practice and that you need to get used to the fact or alternatively withdraw from society altogether. If you still do not follow then let me give you an in-your-face example that you will understand: if someone decides to walk down the main street of a city brandishing and firing an AK47 at random then citizens expect the police to arrest and demobilize him immediately (if he's unlucky then he'll likely be shot dead in the process). Well, the situation with a person loose in society who is carrying a lethal virus that can kill those who catch it only differs by fact that the person may not know that they are carrying said virus—hence general rules for everyone apply—isolation, masks, etc., etc. Now if that person is knowingly carrying the virus and then deliberately defies authority then he/she is no different to the person who is carrying the AK47 and he/she needs to be arrested and isolated immediately for the very reason that he/she is a danger to everybody that he/she comes in contact with! QED! You many think this is insanity but very thankfully, most people and most governments around the world disagree with your view. We're also very thankful for that fact that those who hold views such as yours are in the minority. For your information, those who are vaccinated are far less likely to spread the virus in anywhere near the same quantities. It is not a perfect situation but it's a damned side better scenario for an uninfected person to come in contact with a vaccinated person with the virus than one who has the virus and is not vaccinated. Whatever you may think, there is absolutely no argument against this. That's why everyone is still subject to virus hygiene rules. And in case if you've forgotten, hygiene rules have existed across society long before the arrival of COVID; these new rules are only an extension thereof. Perhaps you would like to explain why you think the way you do.