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Great to see! Selfishly, as a MacOS refugee and someone who has an on/off relationship with using desktop Linux as my main (and a desire to use it daily); I wo

Great to see! Selfishly, as a MacOS refugee and someone who has an on/off relationship with using desktop Linux as my main (and a desire to use it daily); I would love it if there was a shameless clone of the MacOS DE for Linux. I don't care for customisation, I just want a sensible default that I can get up and running with immediately.

pxc 5y ago
> I don't care for customisation, I just want a sensible default that I can get up and running with immediately. Why's GNOME not good enough for this use case?
- apatheticonion 5y ago
  Gnome41 on Debian Bookworm is my current setup and am actually typing this comment from there. I use it about once a week and as far as I can tell, Gnome40+ is giving off signs that I might be able to use it as a daily driver (for work). Looking forward to the updated Files application and whatever else is coming in G42. That said, there are a lot of design choices that cater more to mobile form factors and the desktop experience suffers as a result. Then there are non DE related issues like application installation. Chromium has bizarre window and mouse performance issues related to Wayland. Graphics card drivers are difficult to install, even as someone who knows how to read documentation. Flatpak has a permissions structure that doesn't always make sense for certain applications (like OBS, Discord, IDEs) and installing applications using a package manager is very hit and miss (e.g. OBS is broken in Debian Bookworm when installed via apt because of a qt5 dependency) I don't mean to sound negative - I only complain because I love Linux and want to be able to go to my friends and colleagues and say "you can use this" - feeling confident that they will have an experience on par with MacOS.
  - moojacob 5y ago
    That Chrome bug seems frustrating... have you tried changing chrome to use Wayland instead of XWayland? Go to chrome://flags and change Preferred Ozone platform from X11 to Wayland.
    - apatheticonion 5y ago
      Thanks, yes I actually raised a bug with the issue Chromium issue tracker. I have set Wayland as the default and the resizing issues have settled. There currently isn't a fix for the scroll being slower than other system windows and there also isn't a fix for issues with dragging tabs. Middle click doesn't work but I think that's system wide
      - pxc 5y ago
        > Middle click doesn't work but I think that's system wide At all? Applications don't receive middle click events?
yepthatsreality 5y ago
> I would love it if there was a shameless clone of the MacOS DE for Linux. Elementary OS
- apatheticonion 5y ago
  It's a great approximation, but I haven't had a lot of success using Elementary. The best experience I have had so far is Gnome41 on Debian Bookworm (my current setup which I log into about once a week) - though the DE has some design choices that cater more to mobile desktop environments at the expense of desktop usability (I don't want to appear ungrateful towards the volunteers developing it, it's a great project and I know critique is easy). I'm talking about a complete rip off. Things like per-window virtual desktops, screenshot/video recording via hotkey. The global menu. The rock solid stability. Window decorations, spacing, fonts and overall feel. MacOS's DE _feels_ really solid.
  - imbnwa 5y ago
    I honestly can’t use another DE after using OS X.
  - yepthatsreality 5y ago
    Sounds like you just want to keep using MacOS. All of that should be more or less easy to tweak on Linux but that’s currently the trade-off. What you’re asking for is someone to rip off MacOS but it’s only acceptable if it’s a rigid and as well supported as MacOS which is developed by a trillion dollar company. That or perhaps join the Elementary OS QA team so that it can have a chance at reaching that really solid _feel_.
    - apatheticonion 5y ago
      > Sounds like you just want to keep using MacOS This is the essence of the issue. As someone who started on PCs running Windows and Linux for decades, I moved to MacOS for work because it's a zero config Unix based system with a productive and ergonomic desktop environment. I don't have an inherent bias towards Apple/MacOS and currently no longer use it (though I have an old x86 MacBook I use when not working on my desktop) It was always an issue that I was not able to use my existing PC to run MacOS due to Apple's restrictive license model and since Apple's move to proprietary hardware (M1), I have abandoned MacOS. I am actively polling various Linux variations to see if something offers me the same level of productivity but am using Windows+Linux within VBox for my work/engineering requirements in the meantime. So it's not that I want to keep using MacOS specifically, it's that I need to use a Unix based operating system that has the polish, usability and stability of MacOS. I respect that the Linux ecosystem is maintained by volunteers and I have as much opportunity as anyone to contribute (and I have been trying to contribute by submitting QA tickets to the Gnome project). That said, I would be more than happy to pay a substantial annual license fee for a Linux experience that rivals that of MacOS. EDIT: > All of that should be more or less easy to tweak on Linux A lot of this functionality simply does not exist on Linux. With multi monitor setups, virtual desktops scroll on both screens. Gnome 4 is the first DE to pseudoreplicate MacOS's model. Screenshots and screen recordings are close but lack the nuance of MacOS (and Windows) that make them valuable. For instance no DE offers the ability to draw notes on a screenshotted area, copy the modified version to clipboard (rather than save a file). There is also no way that I know where you can create an mp4 video of a selected area of the screen as easily as you can take a screenshot. This is invaluable for me as I like to send detailed representations of bugs, with screenshots, notes and videos. Really helps when working remotely or contributing to something like Gnome.
ficklepickle 5y ago
> shameless clone of the MacOS DE for Linux Red Star OS has you covered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS
- apatheticonion 5y ago
  Whoa! Everything about this is wild
linguae 5y ago
This is technically FreeBSD-based and thus isn't Linux, but if you're looking for a clone of macOS, you may be interested in helloSystem: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/

pxc 5y ago

> I don't care for customisation, I just want a sensible default that I can get up and running with immediately. Why's GNOME not good enough for this use case?

apatheticonion 5y ago
Gnome41 on Debian Bookworm is my current setup and am actually typing this comment from there. I use it about once a week and as far as I can tell, Gnome40+ is giving off signs that I might be able to use it as a daily driver (for work). Looking forward to the updated Files application and whatever else is coming in G42. That said, there are a lot of design choices that cater more to mobile form factors and the desktop experience suffers as a result. Then there are non DE related issues like application installation. Chromium has bizarre window and mouse performance issues related to Wayland. Graphics card drivers are difficult to install, even as someone who knows how to read documentation. Flatpak has a permissions structure that doesn't always make sense for certain applications (like OBS, Discord, IDEs) and installing applications using a package manager is very hit and miss (e.g. OBS is broken in Debian Bookworm when installed via apt because of a qt5 dependency) I don't mean to sound negative - I only complain because I love Linux and want to be able to go to my friends and colleagues and say "you can use this" - feeling confident that they will have an experience on par with MacOS.
- moojacob 5y ago
  That Chrome bug seems frustrating... have you tried changing chrome to use Wayland instead of XWayland? Go to chrome://flags and change Preferred Ozone platform from X11 to Wayland.
  - apatheticonion 5y ago
    Thanks, yes I actually raised a bug with the issue Chromium issue tracker. I have set Wayland as the default and the resizing issues have settled. There currently isn't a fix for the scroll being slower than other system windows and there also isn't a fix for issues with dragging tabs. Middle click doesn't work but I think that's system wide
    - pxc 5y ago
      > Middle click doesn't work but I think that's system wide At all? Applications don't receive middle click events?

yepthatsreality 5y ago

> I would love it if there was a shameless clone of the MacOS DE for Linux. Elementary OS

apatheticonion 5y ago
It's a great approximation, but I haven't had a lot of success using Elementary. The best experience I have had so far is Gnome41 on Debian Bookworm (my current setup which I log into about once a week) - though the DE has some design choices that cater more to mobile desktop environments at the expense of desktop usability (I don't want to appear ungrateful towards the volunteers developing it, it's a great project and I know critique is easy). I'm talking about a complete rip off. Things like per-window virtual desktops, screenshot/video recording via hotkey. The global menu. The rock solid stability. Window decorations, spacing, fonts and overall feel. MacOS's DE _feels_ really solid.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  I honestly can’t use another DE after using OS X.
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  Sounds like you just want to keep using MacOS. All of that should be more or less easy to tweak on Linux but that’s currently the trade-off. What you’re asking for is someone to rip off MacOS but it’s only acceptable if it’s a rigid and as well supported as MacOS which is developed by a trillion dollar company. That or perhaps join the Elementary OS QA team so that it can have a chance at reaching that really solid _feel_.
  - apatheticonion 5y ago
    > Sounds like you just want to keep using MacOS This is the essence of the issue. As someone who started on PCs running Windows and Linux for decades, I moved to MacOS for work because it's a zero config Unix based system with a productive and ergonomic desktop environment. I don't have an inherent bias towards Apple/MacOS and currently no longer use it (though I have an old x86 MacBook I use when not working on my desktop) It was always an issue that I was not able to use my existing PC to run MacOS due to Apple's restrictive license model and since Apple's move to proprietary hardware (M1), I have abandoned MacOS. I am actively polling various Linux variations to see if something offers me the same level of productivity but am using Windows+Linux within VBox for my work/engineering requirements in the meantime. So it's not that I want to keep using MacOS specifically, it's that I need to use a Unix based operating system that has the polish, usability and stability of MacOS. I respect that the Linux ecosystem is maintained by volunteers and I have as much opportunity as anyone to contribute (and I have been trying to contribute by submitting QA tickets to the Gnome project). That said, I would be more than happy to pay a substantial annual license fee for a Linux experience that rivals that of MacOS. EDIT: > All of that should be more or less easy to tweak on Linux A lot of this functionality simply does not exist on Linux. With multi monitor setups, virtual desktops scroll on both screens. Gnome 4 is the first DE to pseudoreplicate MacOS's model. Screenshots and screen recordings are close but lack the nuance of MacOS (and Windows) that make them valuable. For instance no DE offers the ability to draw notes on a screenshotted area, copy the modified version to clipboard (rather than save a file). There is also no way that I know where you can create an mp4 video of a selected area of the screen as easily as you can take a screenshot. This is invaluable for me as I like to send detailed representations of bugs, with screenshots, notes and videos. Really helps when working remotely or contributing to something like Gnome.

ficklepickle 5y ago

> shameless clone of the MacOS DE for Linux Red Star OS has you covered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS

apatheticonion 5y ago
Whoa! Everything about this is wild

linguae 5y ago

This is technically FreeBSD-based and thus isn't Linux, but if you're looking for a clone of macOS, you may be interested in helloSystem: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/