3 ms·

Most "skilled trades" are gated by some form of licensure, not actual difficulty.

by R0b0t1 5y ago

patrick451 5y ago
The same thing is true of many high paying white collar jobs. Lawyers, physicians, CPAs, PEs all have to pass exams to become licensed. Many of these are gated by non-optional schooling. E.g., in most jurisdictions, you cannot just pass the bar and become an attorney. Others, like physics and architects, are additionally gated by mandatory apprenticeships. Gatekeeping is not some thing that just the scare quotes skilled trades do.
chaostheory 5y ago
It’s “gated” to ensure that the individual actually possesses those skills and can perform theses tasks safely and comply with safety standards. As someone who's immigrated from the developing world, I can tell you horror stories when it's less regulated. I'm not a fan of regulation, but there is a minimum level needed to ensure trust.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  There's a great Milton Friedman test: if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation. But this is not what you see in the modern day. It's true very instrumental organizations like the FDA were funded based on public outcry, but now most lobbying done to or affecting those organizations is done by people already in the market. You must not have never interacted with something like, say, AC install. It's regulated and you're not supposed to buy the parts yourself. You can, but some stores shut you out, they won't take your refrigerant back that legally needs to be disposed of, and so on. Recently I fixed some AC units that just needed a soldering touch up where "real repair companies" wanted to do a full new $10k install. Similar stuff for locksmithing.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    > if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation They are. You're just living in a bubble were regulations have already been set. https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/the-bigger-problem-behind-cambodias-building-collapses/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/the-bigger-problem-behind-ca... https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/geip/WCMS_614394/lang--en/index.htm https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/geip/WCMS_614394/lang--en/... > Similar stuff for locksmithing. https://www.bbb.org/article/news-releases/22797-bbb-scam-alert-locked-out-dont-fall-for-a-locksmith-cons https://www.bbb.org/article/news-releases/22797-bbb-scam-ale... https://www.gvlock.com/blog/how-to-spot-avoid-a-locksmith-scam-2/ https://www.gvlock.com/blog/how-to-spot-avoid-a-locksmith-sc... I agree that over regulation is not a good thing, but I strongly feel that there's a need for basic licensing
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      How are those links at all relevant? With experience in two licensed things -- HVAC and locksmithing -- I say the current red tape is red tape.
      - chaostheory 5y ago
        In the first set of examples, you have unlicensed work by unlicensed contractors killing people. Survivors are then angry enough at politicians to demand either more strict regulations or better enforcement. It’s a response to your freidman quote The 2nd example highlights what happens when you have a bunch of unlicensed individuals posing as locksmiths ripping people off because they don’t know how to properly deal with locks. Instead of picking them, they use a drill to destroy the lock and overcharge their victims with new locks. It’s a big problem. Ie Some regulations are useful.
        bluGill 5y ago
        The drill to destroy locks is proper security theater. If people knew how easy it was to pick a lock they wouldn't trust security. Drilling takes time and makes the lock look better than it is.
- bluGill 5y ago
  That is half true. It is gated, but the difficulty of getting a license doesn't match the difficulty of the work. Years of apprenticeship before you can go on your own. Of course some need those years, but not everyone. There is reason for a license, but they have a system to ensure only so many get one thus keeping supply down

Most "skilled trades" are gated by some form of licensure, not actual difficulty.

by R0b0t1 5y ago

Most "skilled trades" are gated by some form of licensure, not actual difficulty.

The same thing is true of many high paying white collar jobs. Lawyers, physicians, CPAs, PEs all have to pass exams to become licensed. Many of these are gated by non-optional schooling. E.g., in most jurisdictions, you cannot just pass the bar and become an attorney. Others, like physics and architects, are additionally gated by mandatory apprenticeships. Gatekeeping is not some thing that just the scare quotes skilled trades do.

chaostheory 5y ago

It’s “gated” to ensure that the individual actually possesses those skills and can perform theses tasks safely and comply with safety standards. As someone who's immigrated from the developing world, I can tell you horror stories when it's less regulated. I'm not a fan of regulation, but there is a minimum level needed to ensure trust.

R0b0t1 5y ago
There's a great Milton Friedman test: if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation. But this is not what you see in the modern day. It's true very instrumental organizations like the FDA were funded based on public outcry, but now most lobbying done to or affecting those organizations is done by people already in the market. You must not have never interacted with something like, say, AC install. It's regulated and you're not supposed to buy the parts yourself. You can, but some stores shut you out, they won't take your refrigerant back that legally needs to be disposed of, and so on. Recently I fixed some AC units that just needed a soldering touch up where "real repair companies" wanted to do a full new $10k install. Similar stuff for locksmithing.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  > if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation They are. You're just living in a bubble were regulations have already been set. https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/the-bigger-problem-behind-cambodias-building-collapses/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/the-bigger-problem-behind-ca... https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/geip/WCMS_614394/lang--en/index.htm https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/geip/WCMS_614394/lang--en/... > Similar stuff for locksmithing. https://www.bbb.org/article/news-releases/22797-bbb-scam-alert-locked-out-dont-fall-for-a-locksmith-cons https://www.bbb.org/article/news-releases/22797-bbb-scam-ale... https://www.gvlock.com/blog/how-to-spot-avoid-a-locksmith-scam-2/ https://www.gvlock.com/blog/how-to-spot-avoid-a-locksmith-sc... I agree that over regulation is not a good thing, but I strongly feel that there's a need for basic licensing
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    How are those links at all relevant? With experience in two licensed things -- HVAC and locksmithing -- I say the current red tape is red tape.
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      In the first set of examples, you have unlicensed work by unlicensed contractors killing people. Survivors are then angry enough at politicians to demand either more strict regulations or better enforcement. It’s a response to your freidman quote The 2nd example highlights what happens when you have a bunch of unlicensed individuals posing as locksmiths ripping people off because they don’t know how to properly deal with locks. Instead of picking them, they use a drill to destroy the lock and overcharge their victims with new locks. It’s a big problem. Ie Some regulations are useful.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        The drill to destroy locks is proper security theater. If people knew how easy it was to pick a lock they wouldn't trust security. Drilling takes time and makes the lock look better than it is.
bluGill 5y ago
That is half true. It is gated, but the difficulty of getting a license doesn't match the difficulty of the work. Years of apprenticeship before you can go on your own. Of course some need those years, but not everyone. There is reason for a license, but they have a system to ensure only so many get one thus keeping supply down