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That's such a terrible design pattern for games. And it's one of the reasons that I found mmos baffling from the very first moment that they were created. If a

That's such a terrible design pattern for games. And it's one of the reasons that I found mmos baffling from the very first moment that they were created. If a game isn't 100% FUN 100% OF THE TIME then the designers have failed. I shouldn't have to do X amount of things before I'm able to get to the actual game, and if somebody says "well once you get past the first couple hours of the game it starts to get fun."... then I won't even bother. this is also one of the reasons that I tend to prefer carefully crafted narrative style games (8-10 hour experiences) that are shorter in length then huge open sandbox worlds that you play for hundreds of hours.

Gigachad 5y ago
Apparently MMOs used to contain huge grind because they were half chat clients, half games. So you would spend an hour chatting with people, while also mining rocks.
scrollaway 5y ago
Im not defending the grind, but this is completely untrue: > If a game isn't 100% FUN 100% OF THE TIME then the designers have failed. For high highs, you need lows as well. My personal highest, most epic moments in games I played are from beating and besting truly frustrating and difficult challenges. Knowing how to design challenge and frustration is a difficult exercise. There are many different types of difficulty you can use as a designer and some are better received than others. The best games make you feel like you can beat the challenge, and it is entirely within your reach as long as you learn. Twitch games (as in reaction games not streamer-friendly games) are an excellent example. Geometry Dash is immediately difficult but also immediately approachable and if you don’t have fun the first few minutes, the game probably isn’t for you. Beat Saber is another good example. It can be incredibly frustrating, in the same way that trying to beat your personal best 100m sprint record can be.
oreally 5y ago
Spoken like an armchair designer, with a huge bias at that. Game designers know that you have to splice in boring moments into their games so that the next dopamine shot has more impact. You can't do 100% fun all of the time. This is why god of war is peppered with puzzles to break the sequence. MMOs specifically need a social experience, and if you're 100% engrossed in the fun there will be no time for the socializing.
Talanes 5y ago
> If a game isn't 100% FUN 100% OF THE TIME then the designers have failed. Making something that literally every person finds fun all of the time is completely impossible. For example I have friends I don't play a lot of multiplayer games with, because I have the most fun when things go sour, while they just get frustrated.

Gigachad 5y ago

Apparently MMOs used to contain huge grind because they were half chat clients, half games. So you would spend an hour chatting with people, while also mining rocks.

scrollaway 5y ago

Im not defending the grind, but this is completely untrue: > If a game isn't 100% FUN 100% OF THE TIME then the designers have failed. For high highs, you need lows as well. My personal highest, most epic moments in games I played are from beating and besting truly frustrating and difficult challenges. Knowing how to design challenge and frustration is a difficult exercise. There are many different types of difficulty you can use as a designer and some are better received than others. The best games make you feel like you can beat the challenge, and it is entirely within your reach as long as you learn. Twitch games (as in reaction games not streamer-friendly games) are an excellent example. Geometry Dash is immediately difficult but also immediately approachable and if you don’t have fun the first few minutes, the game probably isn’t for you. Beat Saber is another good example. It can be incredibly frustrating, in the same way that trying to beat your personal best 100m sprint record can be.

oreally 5y ago

Spoken like an armchair designer, with a huge bias at that. Game designers know that you have to splice in boring moments into their games so that the next dopamine shot has more impact. You can't do 100% fun all of the time. This is why god of war is peppered with puzzles to break the sequence. MMOs specifically need a social experience, and if you're 100% engrossed in the fun there will be no time for the socializing.

Talanes 5y ago

> If a game isn't 100% FUN 100% OF THE TIME then the designers have failed. Making something that literally every person finds fun all of the time is completely impossible. For example I have friends I don't play a lot of multiplayer games with, because I have the most fun when things go sour, while they just get frustrated.