7 ms·

'Havana syndrome': US baffled after new cases in Europe

18 points by bencollier49 5y ago

mateo1 5y ago
Why are they still baffled? There's nothing easier than detecting high power microwave radiation. Embassies are covered in sensors and by now they should have portable dosimeter like devices and put an end to wondering about ambiguous flu-like symptoms.
- bsder 5y ago
  > Why are they still baffled? A) Because they might actually be baffled. If this is some level of mental illness combined with some level of being able to get out of your assignment, it's going to be difficult to disambiguate. B) Because, if it's something that they can detect, they may not want to tell the opponents what capabilities they have. If so, they're not going to release the fact that they found it. They will quietly act to mitigate it.
  - ancientworldnow 5y ago
    Of course B also suggests there is a possibility that it is being caused by equipment the US itself runs and the public stance of being "baffled" serves the multiple purposes of avoiding lawsuits, hiding capabilities, and serving as a useful tool for foreign policy.
- ksaj 5y ago
  That almost answers your own question. If that's what it was, it probably would have been detected as such by now. Maybe that was your point, in which case I completely agree. An SDR should be able to pick something like that up, since they are adept at finding all sorts of other signals on different bands. Surely the government have better / more powerful SDR equipment than you can already get for Raspberry Pi. The levels needed to cause the reported "concussion-like" brain damage would be hard to miss on a "military grade" frequency sweep. I personally don't believe it has anything to do with waves of any sort. I don't know what it is, but I still am not at a point I could rule out mass hysteria compounded by prior underlying issues with symptoms being compounded through stress and jet lag.
maldeh 5y ago
> A more innocent, but also unproven, theory is that those who got sick suffered from a mass condition brought on by some stressful underlying situation. A Stand Alone Complex?
ncmncm 5y ago
I don't know any reason to insist this caused by some gadget. Poison seems more likely.
simonblack 5y ago
I'll say it again: The "Havana Syndrome" cases are workplace injuries caused by (as yet) unrecognised workplace activities. It's cheaper to maintain that the Syndrome is caused by 'adversaries' than to admit that there is any liability for Workers' Compensation claims. Amazing that only US workers are affected while non-US workers in the same areas are not. Radiation weapons would affect both at the same time.
- Maursault 5y ago
  > cheaper to maintain that the Syndrome is caused by 'adversaries' than to admit that there is any liability for Workers' Compensation claims. Why would you think workers' comp can be avoided? It cannot. Any of these diplomats or their families may bring a lawsuit (I'm not sure against who) which they could win or lose. But they cannot lose workers' comp nor fail to be awarded for workplace injury or death. If any file for Workers' Compensation, and report their injury, payments are automatic.
  - dataangel 5y ago
    Even more realistically, the payout from workman’s comp is unattainable for most people because of the amount of time and money you have to invest (you will need a lawyer fighting the company for years).
    - Maursault 5y ago
      This is simply not true. You make it sound like it's some part of the justice system, and it simply isn't in the US. The Department of Labor operates within the Executive Branch. There is no trial. There is no burden of proof on whomever files the application, though likely a threat of perjury if untruthful. If someone dies at work, workers compensation is automatic... there is no way to lose it nor be denied if a survivor applies. It probably takes a few months, but it isn't dragged out for years. If injured, I think the entitlement for injury at the workplace is about 10 years, and if permanently disabled then entitled to lost wage benefits until death (i.e. not just until retirement). I don't know what you're thinking of, but it isn't workers comp. That always gets paid without a fight.

18 points by bencollier49 5y ago

Why are they still baffled? There's nothing easier than detecting high power microwave radiation. Embassies are covered in sensors and by now they should have portable dosimeter like devices and put an end to wondering about ambiguous flu-like symptoms.

bsder 5y ago
> Why are they still baffled? A) Because they might actually be baffled. If this is some level of mental illness combined with some level of being able to get out of your assignment, it's going to be difficult to disambiguate. B) Because, if it's something that they can detect, they may not want to tell the opponents what capabilities they have. If so, they're not going to release the fact that they found it. They will quietly act to mitigate it.
- ancientworldnow 5y ago
  Of course B also suggests there is a possibility that it is being caused by equipment the US itself runs and the public stance of being "baffled" serves the multiple purposes of avoiding lawsuits, hiding capabilities, and serving as a useful tool for foreign policy.
ksaj 5y ago
That almost answers your own question. If that's what it was, it probably would have been detected as such by now. Maybe that was your point, in which case I completely agree. An SDR should be able to pick something like that up, since they are adept at finding all sorts of other signals on different bands. Surely the government have better / more powerful SDR equipment than you can already get for Raspberry Pi. The levels needed to cause the reported "concussion-like" brain damage would be hard to miss on a "military grade" frequency sweep. I personally don't believe it has anything to do with waves of any sort. I don't know what it is, but I still am not at a point I could rule out mass hysteria compounded by prior underlying issues with symptoms being compounded through stress and jet lag.

maldeh 5y ago

> A more innocent, but also unproven, theory is that those who got sick suffered from a mass condition brought on by some stressful underlying situation. A Stand Alone Complex?

ncmncm 5y ago

I don't know any reason to insist this caused by some gadget. Poison seems more likely.

simonblack 5y ago

I'll say it again: The "Havana Syndrome" cases are workplace injuries caused by (as yet) unrecognised workplace activities. It's cheaper to maintain that the Syndrome is caused by 'adversaries' than to admit that there is any liability for Workers' Compensation claims. Amazing that only US workers are affected while non-US workers in the same areas are not. Radiation weapons would affect both at the same time.

Maursault 5y ago
> cheaper to maintain that the Syndrome is caused by 'adversaries' than to admit that there is any liability for Workers' Compensation claims. Why would you think workers' comp can be avoided? It cannot. Any of these diplomats or their families may bring a lawsuit (I'm not sure against who) which they could win or lose. But they cannot lose workers' comp nor fail to be awarded for workplace injury or death. If any file for Workers' Compensation, and report their injury, payments are automatic.
- dataangel 5y ago
  Even more realistically, the payout from workman’s comp is unattainable for most people because of the amount of time and money you have to invest (you will need a lawyer fighting the company for years).
  - Maursault 5y ago
    This is simply not true. You make it sound like it's some part of the justice system, and it simply isn't in the US. The Department of Labor operates within the Executive Branch. There is no trial. There is no burden of proof on whomever files the application, though likely a threat of perjury if untruthful. If someone dies at work, workers compensation is automatic... there is no way to lose it nor be denied if a survivor applies. It probably takes a few months, but it isn't dragged out for years. If injured, I think the entitlement for injury at the workplace is about 10 years, and if permanently disabled then entitled to lost wage benefits until death (i.e. not just until retirement). I don't know what you're thinking of, but it isn't workers comp. That always gets paid without a fight.