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To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout. Gi

To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout. Given many of those Russians were there from the Soviet era or direct descendants, it doesn't seem too crazy of a claim. The US and NATO countries have done worse for less. Now invading Ukraine? Thats another thing altogether.

dnautics 5y ago
Without defending russia: the same argument does apply for selected parts of ukraine that still have not been yet annexed by russia. I wonder how long it will take for russia to get tired of subsidizing crimea and they will beg to go back to the ukraine.
- avmich 5y ago
  > I wonder how long it will take for russia to get tired of subsidizing crimea and they will beg to go back to the ukraine. Starting already. I mean, more than before. I found Crimeans not very understanding Russia's realities, so now even thought money go to Crimea from the rest of Russia, the people in Crimea start to compare unfavorably to the alternative. History moves slowly. However, Ukraine going closer to Europe would be a good illustration.
- andy-x 5y ago
  Not going to happen, major reason for annexation was to keep Sebastopol as the major/only Russia navy base in the Black Sea. That reason will never vanish as there are no other suitable locations to relocate that base.
vizzah 5y ago
There was no imminent danger to those inhabitans when Russia annexed. They just seized the opportunity to take back important xUSSR territory. The inhabitants are mostly happy, though, as they were promised new horizons and no mandatory Ukrainian language, which they never spoken. All these regional problems are mainly due to the language. If Ukraine allowed Russian as it's second official (or at least regional) language, Donbas would return back in a blink. And Crimea might follow.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  But don't they have the right of self-determination if they want to join Russia?
  - pc86 5y ago
    They can move to Russia. They have as much right to move Crimea to Russia as citizens of Maine do to leave the US and join Canada - e.g. not much. This is all hypothetical though. What happened in reality is that Russia rolled tanks into a neighboring sovereign country, invading it, and stole a part of it. It's a blatant and egregious act of war.
    - mrguyorama 5y ago
      I was just about to say: The vast majority of northern maine, including most of my family, is "French Canadian", some of them even having French as a first language. Go ahead and try telling them they should belong to Canada and it wouldn't be a big deal if Canada invaded and annexed them. You won't have many friends
      - pc86 5y ago
        I'm not sure how you can get that sentiment from my comment.
        mrguyorama 5y ago
        I was agreeing, not disagreeing
    - VictorPath 5y ago
      Someone should tell that to the Kosovans who broke off from Serbia 14 years ago, to jubilation in the US and western Europe.
      - estaseuropano 5y ago
avmich 5y ago
> The US and NATO countries have done worse for less. Care to provide examples? Crimea annexation was almost bloodless, right, but annexation nevertheless - ?
- kingofpandora 5y ago
  The obvious answer is Kosovo.
  - avmich 5y ago
    Stopping the terrorization of differently-religious people and preventing repetition of Rwanda-like genocide is worse and for less?
tablespoon 5y ago
> To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout. Given many of those Russians were there from the Soviet era or direct descendants, it doesn't seem too crazy of a claim. The US and NATO countries have done worse for less. Now invading Ukraine? Thats another thing altogether. What do you mean "now invading Ukraine"? Russia already did that, when they invaded Crimea, which is Ukraine.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout There's a whole lot of the Southwestern US you are agreeing that Mexico can and should invade and occupy, with a much stronger case, if you claim that this justifies Russia in Crimea.
- Jansen312 5y ago
  In the end Crimea people did voted to rejoin Russia. Though not really legal, the people there have spoken their will. I would let that to rest. Invading Ukraine on the other hand is a big no. But, given we are now administer by old forgetful Biden, and Xi on the other side determine to get Taiwan, can we manage a 2-front war by 2 of the world superpower? EU is mostly headed by weak leadership (see Germany, Macron, and recent Boris debacle). Coming spring we might even enter a property crash with high inflation. American got the appetite to save Ukraine? Taiwan maybe given we addicted to chips and general Sino-phobia.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > In the end Crimea people did voted to rejoin Russia. Cool, any invasion and occupation and annexation is justified if you stage a vote to retroactively justify it after the fact.
- elcritch 5y ago
  My comment wasn’t to condone invasions, per se. But it’s unfair to say Russia had/has _no_ legitimate stake in Crimea. Texas came about almost exactly by the method you describe. If in the future Mexico has the military might to retake Texas, they might decide to do it. Who knows future Texans might welcome it. I mean the USA invaded two sovereign nations states in recent decades with dubious international legal basis.

dnautics 5y ago

Without defending russia: the same argument does apply for selected parts of ukraine that still have not been yet annexed by russia. I wonder how long it will take for russia to get tired of subsidizing crimea and they will beg to go back to the ukraine.

avmich 5y ago
> I wonder how long it will take for russia to get tired of subsidizing crimea and they will beg to go back to the ukraine. Starting already. I mean, more than before. I found Crimeans not very understanding Russia's realities, so now even thought money go to Crimea from the rest of Russia, the people in Crimea start to compare unfavorably to the alternative. History moves slowly. However, Ukraine going closer to Europe would be a good illustration.
andy-x 5y ago
Not going to happen, major reason for annexation was to keep Sebastopol as the major/only Russia navy base in the Black Sea. That reason will never vanish as there are no other suitable locations to relocate that base.

vizzah 5y ago

There was no imminent danger to those inhabitans when Russia annexed. They just seized the opportunity to take back important xUSSR territory. The inhabitants are mostly happy, though, as they were promised new horizons and no mandatory Ukrainian language, which they never spoken. All these regional problems are mainly due to the language. If Ukraine allowed Russian as it's second official (or at least regional) language, Donbas would return back in a blink. And Crimea might follow.

koheripbal 5y ago
But don't they have the right of self-determination if they want to join Russia?
- pc86 5y ago
  They can move to Russia. They have as much right to move Crimea to Russia as citizens of Maine do to leave the US and join Canada - e.g. not much. This is all hypothetical though. What happened in reality is that Russia rolled tanks into a neighboring sovereign country, invading it, and stole a part of it. It's a blatant and egregious act of war.
  - mrguyorama 5y ago
    I was just about to say: The vast majority of northern maine, including most of my family, is "French Canadian", some of them even having French as a first language. Go ahead and try telling them they should belong to Canada and it wouldn't be a big deal if Canada invaded and annexed them. You won't have many friends
    - pc86 5y ago
      I'm not sure how you can get that sentiment from my comment.
      - mrguyorama 5y ago
        I was agreeing, not disagreeing
  - VictorPath 5y ago
    Someone should tell that to the Kosovans who broke off from Serbia 14 years ago, to jubilation in the US and western Europe.
    - estaseuropano 5y ago

avmich 5y ago

> The US and NATO countries have done worse for less. Care to provide examples? Crimea annexation was almost bloodless, right, but annexation nevertheless - ?

kingofpandora 5y ago
The obvious answer is Kosovo.
- avmich 5y ago
  Stopping the terrorization of differently-religious people and preventing repetition of Rwanda-like genocide is worse and for less?

tablespoon 5y ago

> To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout. Given many of those Russians were there from the Soviet era or direct descendants, it doesn't seem too crazy of a claim. The US and NATO countries have done worse for less. Now invading Ukraine? Thats another thing altogether. What do you mean "now invading Ukraine"? Russia already did that, when they invaded Crimea, which is Ukraine.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> To be fair Crimea does have a majority ethnic Russian inhabitants. Wikipedia lists Crimea's demographics as 65% while others were lower at 58% or thereabout There's a whole lot of the Southwestern US you are agreeing that Mexico can and should invade and occupy, with a much stronger case, if you claim that this justifies Russia in Crimea.

Jansen312 5y ago
In the end Crimea people did voted to rejoin Russia. Though not really legal, the people there have spoken their will. I would let that to rest. Invading Ukraine on the other hand is a big no. But, given we are now administer by old forgetful Biden, and Xi on the other side determine to get Taiwan, can we manage a 2-front war by 2 of the world superpower? EU is mostly headed by weak leadership (see Germany, Macron, and recent Boris debacle). Coming spring we might even enter a property crash with high inflation. American got the appetite to save Ukraine? Taiwan maybe given we addicted to chips and general Sino-phobia.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > In the end Crimea people did voted to rejoin Russia. Cool, any invasion and occupation and annexation is justified if you stage a vote to retroactively justify it after the fact.
elcritch 5y ago
My comment wasn’t to condone invasions, per se. But it’s unfair to say Russia had/has _no_ legitimate stake in Crimea. Texas came about almost exactly by the method you describe. If in the future Mexico has the military might to retake Texas, they might decide to do it. Who knows future Texans might welcome it. I mean the USA invaded two sovereign nations states in recent decades with dubious international legal basis.