4 ms·

USA annexes Hawaii, no one bats an eye. Russia annexes Crimea, everyone loses their minds.

eitland 5y ago
You pretend these are equal: Well, they are not. There is a good deal over a century between those two events and a whole lot has changed since then - even though I should admit not as much as I want. Russias aggression against Ukraine however is at a completely different level than anything anyone has seen in Europe since a long time ago (and then it was the Sovjet, and before that Nazi-Germany.)
cornhole 5y ago
How do I sign up to get paid to shill for Russian interests on the internet? I have no convictions and would like to get money doing what you do.
alkonaut 5y ago
Colonialism went out of style a century ago and this whole discussion is based on the fact that Russia didn’t get that memo.
- VictorPath 5y ago
  Someone should tell that to the Iraqis, Afghans, Palestine etc.
esarbe 5y ago
I guess that's sarcasm? Because I honestly cannot tell. Yes, the U.S used its imperialist power to annex Hawai'i in 1897. That was before most of the modern foundations of international law - in particular article 2(4) of Chapter 1 of the United Nations Articles[0] - were put in place. No excuse, but still - different times. There are many aspects of U.S. foreign policy I positively abhor. But I'm not alone; the coups and the assassinations and the fiscal bullying and the straight out illegal wars waged against foreign nations have put quite a dent into the U.S.' lady-liberty image. Despite all that, the U.S. - at least since the end of WW2nd - hasn't seriously meddled in territorial growth or annexations. That's Russia's game and - given the assurances given to Ukraine after the collapse of the SU - especially perfidious. All in all, I'm quite happy not to live in the Russian sphere of influence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_I_of_the_United_Nations_Charter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_I_of_the_United_Nation...
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  While you're technically correct in that the age of colonialism is over, I'm not so sure if the US covertly and overtly overthrowing governments they don't like is much better than the plain and simple invasion Russia executed in Ukraine. Either would be worse for the victims if Russia did it, but I'd much rather "just" become American or Russian than have foreign sponsors set up religious extremists to stage a rebellion and overthrow the government.
  - esarbe 5y ago
    > I'm not so sure if the US covertly and overtly overthrowing governments they don't like is much better than the plain and simple invasion Russia executed in Ukraine. Neither am I and I detest what the U.S. did to South America. The pain and suffering cause by the US's actions there will continue to reverberate for decades to come.
- LBs7dPQbEw3tR42 5y ago
  > Despite all that, the U.S. - at least since the end of WW2nd - hasn't seriously meddled in territorial growth or annexations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
  - esarbe 5y ago
    All of these are sovereign nations and joined NATO quite willingly. None of these nations were annexed.

You pretend these are equal: Well, they are not. There is a good deal over a century between those two events and a whole lot has changed since then - even though I should admit not as much as I want. Russias aggression against Ukraine however is at a completely different level than anything anyone has seen in Europe since a long time ago (and then it was the Sovjet, and before that Nazi-Germany.)

cornhole 5y ago

How do I sign up to get paid to shill for Russian interests on the internet? I have no convictions and would like to get money doing what you do.

alkonaut 5y ago

Colonialism went out of style a century ago and this whole discussion is based on the fact that Russia didn’t get that memo.

VictorPath 5y ago
Someone should tell that to the Iraqis, Afghans, Palestine etc.

esarbe 5y ago

I guess that's sarcasm? Because I honestly cannot tell. Yes, the U.S used its imperialist power to annex Hawai'i in 1897. That was before most of the modern foundations of international law - in particular article 2(4) of Chapter 1 of the United Nations Articles[0] - were put in place. No excuse, but still - different times. There are many aspects of U.S. foreign policy I positively abhor. But I'm not alone; the coups and the assassinations and the fiscal bullying and the straight out illegal wars waged against foreign nations have put quite a dent into the U.S.' lady-liberty image. Despite all that, the U.S. - at least since the end of WW2nd - hasn't seriously meddled in territorial growth or annexations. That's Russia's game and - given the assurances given to Ukraine after the collapse of the SU - especially perfidious. All in all, I'm quite happy not to live in the Russian sphere of influence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_I_of_the_United_Nations_Charter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_I_of_the_United_Nation...

jeroenhd 5y ago
While you're technically correct in that the age of colonialism is over, I'm not so sure if the US covertly and overtly overthrowing governments they don't like is much better than the plain and simple invasion Russia executed in Ukraine. Either would be worse for the victims if Russia did it, but I'd much rather "just" become American or Russian than have foreign sponsors set up religious extremists to stage a rebellion and overthrow the government.
- esarbe 5y ago
  > I'm not so sure if the US covertly and overtly overthrowing governments they don't like is much better than the plain and simple invasion Russia executed in Ukraine. Neither am I and I detest what the U.S. did to South America. The pain and suffering cause by the US's actions there will continue to reverberate for decades to come.
LBs7dPQbEw3tR42 5y ago
> Despite all that, the U.S. - at least since the end of WW2nd - hasn't seriously meddled in territorial growth or annexations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
- esarbe 5y ago
  All of these are sovereign nations and joined NATO quite willingly. None of these nations were annexed.