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> 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. Which is why the parent comment specifically mentioned "skilled trad

> 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. Which is why the parent comment specifically mentioned "skilled trades". If you're not familiar with the term, think plumber or electrician instead of roofer or outdoor landscaper. The working window for skilled trades is also far greater than software engineering.

endisneigh 5y ago
There are skilled trades that don’t pay well. In any case there’s no canonical list of “skilled trades” to begin with. I fail to see how you can be an electrician longer than a software engineer, but even if that was true there are far more careers a college degree enable that pay more.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  imo a "skilled trade" involves a hard to learn skill that is in high demand. Consequently, the demand yields a higher salary than a commodity "non-high skilled" trade that is not high in demand. > I fail to see how you can be an electrician longer than a software engineer Because electrical components and systems do not evolve and change as fast as software constructs, neither does plumbing. > but even if that was true there are far more careers a college degree enable that pay more. That's debatable when you account for student loans paired with less marketable degrees. Otherwise, I feel that student debt wouldn't be an issue.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Many skilled trades are not that hard to learn, those who know it just pretend they are hard to keep people out. Of course with an engineering background I know how to read all the different tables and understand where the numbers came from. That might give me an advantage, but I can learn to do most of them pretty quickly if I want. (they are faster than me because they tend to have the tables memorized)
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      > Many skilled trades are not that hard to learn If they're not hard to learn, then imo it's not a "skilled trade". > those who know it just pretend they are hard to keep people out. > Of course with an engineering background I know how to read all the different tables and understand where the numbers came from. If you're an EE and you're referring to electricians, I would argue that electrical work is not an easy concept for most of the population which is one reason for its market demand.
      - R0b0t1 5y ago
        Most "skilled trades" are gated by some form of licensure, not actual difficulty.
        patrick451 5y ago
        The same thing is true of many high paying white collar jobs. Lawyers, physicians, CPAs, PEs all have to pass exams to become licensed. Many of these are gated by non-optional schooling. E.g., in most jurisdictions, you cannot just pass the bar and become an attorney. Others, like physics and architects, are additionally gated by mandatory apprenticeships. Gatekeeping is not some thing that just the scare quotes skilled trades do.
        chaostheory 5y ago
        It’s “gated” to ensure that the individual actually possesses those skills and can perform theses tasks safely and comply with safety standards. As someone who's immigrated from the developing world, I can tell you horror stories when it's less regulated. I'm not a fan of regulation, but there is a minimum level needed to ensure trust.
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        There's a great Milton Friedman test: if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation. But this is not what you see in the modern day. It's true very instrumental organizations like the FDA were funded based on public outcry, but now most lobbying done to or affecting those organizations is done by people already in the market. You must not have never interacted with something like, say, AC install. It's regulated and you're not supposed to buy the parts yourself. You can, but some stores shut you out, they won't take your refrigerant back that legally needs to be disposed of, and so on. Recently I fixed some AC units that just needed a soldering touch up where "real repair companies" wanted to do a full new $10k install. Similar stuff for locksmithing.

endisneigh 5y ago

There are skilled trades that don’t pay well. In any case there’s no canonical list of “skilled trades” to begin with. I fail to see how you can be an electrician longer than a software engineer, but even if that was true there are far more careers a college degree enable that pay more.

chaostheory 5y ago
imo a "skilled trade" involves a hard to learn skill that is in high demand. Consequently, the demand yields a higher salary than a commodity "non-high skilled" trade that is not high in demand. > I fail to see how you can be an electrician longer than a software engineer Because electrical components and systems do not evolve and change as fast as software constructs, neither does plumbing. > but even if that was true there are far more careers a college degree enable that pay more. That's debatable when you account for student loans paired with less marketable degrees. Otherwise, I feel that student debt wouldn't be an issue.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Many skilled trades are not that hard to learn, those who know it just pretend they are hard to keep people out. Of course with an engineering background I know how to read all the different tables and understand where the numbers came from. That might give me an advantage, but I can learn to do most of them pretty quickly if I want. (they are faster than me because they tend to have the tables memorized)
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    > Many skilled trades are not that hard to learn If they're not hard to learn, then imo it's not a "skilled trade". > those who know it just pretend they are hard to keep people out. > Of course with an engineering background I know how to read all the different tables and understand where the numbers came from. If you're an EE and you're referring to electricians, I would argue that electrical work is not an easy concept for most of the population which is one reason for its market demand.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Most "skilled trades" are gated by some form of licensure, not actual difficulty.
      - patrick451 5y ago
        The same thing is true of many high paying white collar jobs. Lawyers, physicians, CPAs, PEs all have to pass exams to become licensed. Many of these are gated by non-optional schooling. E.g., in most jurisdictions, you cannot just pass the bar and become an attorney. Others, like physics and architects, are additionally gated by mandatory apprenticeships. Gatekeeping is not some thing that just the scare quotes skilled trades do.
      - chaostheory 5y ago
        It’s “gated” to ensure that the individual actually possesses those skills and can perform theses tasks safely and comply with safety standards. As someone who's immigrated from the developing world, I can tell you horror stories when it's less regulated. I'm not a fan of regulation, but there is a minimum level needed to ensure trust.
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        There's a great Milton Friedman test: if license requirements benefit consumers you would expect to see consumers at the statehouse demanding legislation. But this is not what you see in the modern day. It's true very instrumental organizations like the FDA were funded based on public outcry, but now most lobbying done to or affecting those organizations is done by people already in the market. You must not have never interacted with something like, say, AC install. It's regulated and you're not supposed to buy the parts yourself. You can, but some stores shut you out, they won't take your refrigerant back that legally needs to be disposed of, and so on. Recently I fixed some AC units that just needed a soldering touch up where "real repair companies" wanted to do a full new $10k install. Similar stuff for locksmithing.