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> That was the answer. People vocally cynical about the vaccines have always been using a strawman argument. No, we were repeatedly told that vaccines prevent

by rsj_hn 5y ago

> That was the answer. People vocally cynical about the vaccines have always been using a strawman argument. No, we were repeatedly told that vaccines prevent both transmission and infection, and anyone trying to cynically rewrite history now is using a strawman argument. The whole point of the OSHA vaccine mandate was to prevent spread. If it was just a matter of how severe the disease is to you, then there is no rationale for forcing people to take the vaccine or any of these mandates, anymore than there would be a rationale for a mandate to force people to lose weight or exercise more. The AMA said in its amicus brief: "the widespread use of those vaccines is the best way to keep COVID-19 from spreading within workplaces".[3] Here is Biden: "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."[1] Here is Fauci: Vaccinated people are "dead ends" for virus[2] CDC director Rochelle Walensky: "Vaccinated people don't transmit the virus"[4] [1] https://news.yahoo.com/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-011843623.html https://news.yahoo.com/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-01184362... [2] https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-people-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-... [3] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/21/21A244/206954/20211230135726547_FOR%20FILING%20SCOTUS%20OSHA%20ETS%20amicus.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/21/21A244/206954/2021... [4] https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-peopl...

vmception 5y ago
> the widespread use of those vaccines is the best way to keep COVID-19 from spreading within workplaces [at a greater viral load than without the vaccines because all documents from Pzifer, Moderna, J&J, AstraZenaca, SinoPharm, and the people analyzing those documents made the same conclusion]
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Except they didn't make that point at all, because it's not relevant to a mandate. Please don't try to rewrite the quotes I am citing to make them support your point as that is literally trying to rewrite history. We have a word for that, and it's "gaslighting".
  - vmception 5y ago
    the reason we are talking past each other is because you chose the wrong influencers, sorry thats been your experience. you should be dismayed at public facing communication for the broad audience, since the one time we needed them they messed that up. > on a medical level, it is clear this wasn't to stop the spread, it was to slow the spread as vaccinated infected have smaller viral load for shorter time period compared to unvaccinated infected, as well as reduce severity and deaths of those that contained a viral load. this was my goal post, it has not moved.
    - Tostino 5y ago
      This comment chain represents so many conversations I've seen on HN / Reddit. The understanding I've come to (flavored by my media diet) is very similar to yours...It is just really hard to have a conversation with each other about events when we can't even agree on the base facts. It'd be nice if we could figure out how to reduce that gap, especially because a lot of these things are simply facts, not opinions. And that is not to say I am free from blind spots! I am not saying my media diet is the "right one" that gets to the truth, I know I have them, but I do try and reduce them as best I can.
unethical_ban 5y ago
I agree that public health officials making overstated claims are doing net harm to the country by sowing distrust. That said, I think that the people who constantly complain about the accuracy of public health statements regarding the vaccine's effectiveness, and who decline to acknowledge the public health benefits of mass vaccination, are people who are predisposed to distrust in authority or anything they can't conceptually understand, like mRNA.

by rsj_hn 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

> the widespread use of those vaccines is the best way to keep COVID-19 from spreading within workplaces [at a greater viral load than without the vaccines because all documents from Pzifer, Moderna, J&J, AstraZenaca, SinoPharm, and the people analyzing those documents made the same conclusion]

rsj_hn 5y ago
Except they didn't make that point at all, because it's not relevant to a mandate. Please don't try to rewrite the quotes I am citing to make them support your point as that is literally trying to rewrite history. We have a word for that, and it's "gaslighting".
- vmception 5y ago
  the reason we are talking past each other is because you chose the wrong influencers, sorry thats been your experience. you should be dismayed at public facing communication for the broad audience, since the one time we needed them they messed that up. > on a medical level, it is clear this wasn't to stop the spread, it was to slow the spread as vaccinated infected have smaller viral load for shorter time period compared to unvaccinated infected, as well as reduce severity and deaths of those that contained a viral load. this was my goal post, it has not moved.
  - Tostino 5y ago
    This comment chain represents so many conversations I've seen on HN / Reddit. The understanding I've come to (flavored by my media diet) is very similar to yours...It is just really hard to have a conversation with each other about events when we can't even agree on the base facts. It'd be nice if we could figure out how to reduce that gap, especially because a lot of these things are simply facts, not opinions. And that is not to say I am free from blind spots! I am not saying my media diet is the "right one" that gets to the truth, I know I have them, but I do try and reduce them as best I can.

unethical_ban 5y ago

I agree that public health officials making overstated claims are doing net harm to the country by sowing distrust. That said, I think that the people who constantly complain about the accuracy of public health statements regarding the vaccine's effectiveness, and who decline to acknowledge the public health benefits of mass vaccination, are people who are predisposed to distrust in authority or anything they can't conceptually understand, like mRNA.