4 ms·

I'm in my early 40s. I dropped out of university. I've been programming professionally, in a wide range of contexts and in various industries and niche markets,

I'm in my early 40s. I dropped out of university. I've been programming professionally, in a wide range of contexts and in various industries and niche markets, for over 15 years. I still deal with the stigma associated with not having a college degree. It's not as frequent today as it was when I was at year 1-5, but it still comes up often enough that I get the sense it will never go away.

j4yav 5y ago
Curious how it comes up? I’m 42 and dropped out at 16, and it has just never come up, nobody has ever asked me once. I’m not doubting your experience, just curious where our paths differed since it’s such a stark contrast. I’m not a programmer but worked in ops, then product management, then CPO. Maybe it’s something to do with that?
- jnwatson 5y ago
  I'm with you. In my professional career, I've had 2 bosses that never went to college. Never been an issue.
- yardie 5y ago
  Possibly enterprise development. In my experience they are a lot more credentials driven then startups and boutique development firms. There are outliers like Microsoft, Netflix, Google. But you have a to be a truly outstanding developer without a degree rather than a pretty good one with a degree.
  - scruple 5y ago
    Yes, most of my work has been in fields that are highly credentialed.
- scruple 5y ago
  I'm a Senior II and tech lead at work and I've always been on the programming track. Around ~22 months ago, I had a cold call from someone in HR asking me, "Did you finish your degree?" It was unusual. I'm not sure where they got the idea that I was "working on it" in the first place. This was happening around the same time that we had been acquired, so I imagine that it was related. More recently, around the end of last summer, a mid-level on my team had apparently heard from someone else that I didn't have a degree and was probing me about my experience, etc. It also came up in conversation during the Christmas holiday, with some friends, while playing an online game. This group of friends is also in tech, though they're a little younger than I am. In that conversation, they were surprised to learn that I didn't have a degree but held patents in the CV space (work done on a bootstrapped start-up that myself and a friend/co-founder worked on in the early/mid 2010s). There are other examples from the past but I don't really hang onto these sorts of things. I would add that I don't think any of these were bias or malicious or anything like that.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    I wouldn't call it stigma then. Sure, it may rarely come up in discussions but it doesn't imply someone is inferior to someone else. The kind of people who believes formal education trumps everything are not in touch with the reality of education. You probably did way more learning in your professional career than most graduates do during their degree.
    - scruple 5y ago
      That's probably a fair call out. I don't think that I can point to any recent personal examples of clear bias / stigma.
    - oblio 5y ago
      It is stigma because many people like these are in positions of power and they get to decide who passes the CV filter, for example.
  - j4yav 5y ago
    Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Maybe it's just your social circle. Nobody likes university in mine - and in the last 15 years no company I worked in required a degree. I met a few CTOs (in real companies, not startup "CTOs" with 3 engineers) without degrees. I took my degree in CS while I was working (lots of sleepless nights and ill prepared exams) and just because I didn't want to preclude myself from the opportunity of working for some big company with antiquated requirements.

j4yav 5y ago

Curious how it comes up? I’m 42 and dropped out at 16, and it has just never come up, nobody has ever asked me once. I’m not doubting your experience, just curious where our paths differed since it’s such a stark contrast. I’m not a programmer but worked in ops, then product management, then CPO. Maybe it’s something to do with that?

jnwatson 5y ago
I'm with you. In my professional career, I've had 2 bosses that never went to college. Never been an issue.
yardie 5y ago
Possibly enterprise development. In my experience they are a lot more credentials driven then startups and boutique development firms. There are outliers like Microsoft, Netflix, Google. But you have a to be a truly outstanding developer without a degree rather than a pretty good one with a degree.
- scruple 5y ago
  Yes, most of my work has been in fields that are highly credentialed.
scruple 5y ago
I'm a Senior II and tech lead at work and I've always been on the programming track. Around ~22 months ago, I had a cold call from someone in HR asking me, "Did you finish your degree?" It was unusual. I'm not sure where they got the idea that I was "working on it" in the first place. This was happening around the same time that we had been acquired, so I imagine that it was related. More recently, around the end of last summer, a mid-level on my team had apparently heard from someone else that I didn't have a degree and was probing me about my experience, etc. It also came up in conversation during the Christmas holiday, with some friends, while playing an online game. This group of friends is also in tech, though they're a little younger than I am. In that conversation, they were surprised to learn that I didn't have a degree but held patents in the CV space (work done on a bootstrapped start-up that myself and a friend/co-founder worked on in the early/mid 2010s). There are other examples from the past but I don't really hang onto these sorts of things. I would add that I don't think any of these were bias or malicious or anything like that.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  I wouldn't call it stigma then. Sure, it may rarely come up in discussions but it doesn't imply someone is inferior to someone else. The kind of people who believes formal education trumps everything are not in touch with the reality of education. You probably did way more learning in your professional career than most graduates do during their degree.
  - scruple 5y ago
    That's probably a fair call out. I don't think that I can point to any recent personal examples of clear bias / stigma.
  - oblio 5y ago
    It is stigma because many people like these are in positions of power and they get to decide who passes the CV filter, for example.
- j4yav 5y ago
  Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

Maybe it's just your social circle. Nobody likes university in mine - and in the last 15 years no company I worked in required a degree. I met a few CTOs (in real companies, not startup "CTOs" with 3 engineers) without degrees. I took my degree in CS while I was working (lots of sleepless nights and ill prepared exams) and just because I didn't want to preclude myself from the opportunity of working for some big company with antiquated requirements.