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I'll just throw out there that I have 3 small children, and we had to upsize our vehicle to accompany them, so now I drive me small sub-compact, but to haul our

I'll just throw out there that I have 3 small children, and we had to upsize our vehicle to accompany them, so now I drive me small sub-compact, but to haul our kids we had to upgrade to a minivan. In a lot of discussions I see around transport it often feels as though people like to pretend that those with small children don't exist. Like no matter how great public transit is trying to transport 3 rambunctious under 6's isn't going to work for our family or anyone else on the public transit for any meaningful trip.

davidw 5y ago
Minivans aren't the problem. That's a sensible design for moving a lot of people around. It's those lifted trucks that have a hood taller than some shorter adults, to say nothing of children. New pickups in general are just ridiculous compared to the same models from 30 years ago, which were just fine for, say, actual ranch work.
Joeri 5y ago
I have two kids, not three, but we have never had a car, always taken the kids everywhere on public transport. I’m not going to say every trip was a joyful experience, but imho you are making a way bigger deal out of this than the reality. Although to be fair it depends a lot on the quality of the public options in your metro region. Downside of kids that always travel by public transport: on the rare occasions that they do travel by car, they puke nearly every time. For us public transport is a lot less stressful than traveling by car.
- buscoquadnary 5y ago
  I applaud your efforts my friend, part of our problem is we've never lived anywhere with good public transit. I will also just throw out the world changes quite dramatically from 2 kids to 3 kids, once those little buggers outnumber you things get a lot more exciting in parenting.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    I don’t fault folks who have three kids, but with fertility rates plummeting, it’s not something that should be optimized for. Families are getting smaller over time.
    - dudzik 5y ago
      The question is if families are getting smaller because parents don’t want more kids or because of regulation[0]. Maybe requiring people to have smaller cars or use public transport would further cut the birth rate. I’m only half-serious. I know there is good reason for public transport or having smaller cars in urban environments. 0: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046
      - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
        > Maybe requiring people to have smaller cars or use public transport would further cut the birth rate. This should be easy enough to test by comparing against cohorts in Europe and Asia.
      - Joeri 5y ago
        Generally the deciding factor has been birth control. The more birth control is available and accepted as a choice, the more women choose to postpone their first child, which automatically leads to having fewer children.
    - kiliancs 5y ago
      Fertility rates plummeting is not necessarily a good thing in the long run, so maybe having kids should be incentivized.
- ajford 5y ago
  Yay for you, but the public transit in my area is useless for getting to the stores or destinations. It's better for commuting into the dense urban area for work hours, but not gonna fly for taking my kids shoe-shopping. That said, glad you have the option for public transit. I'd be happy if my city decided to beef up public transit, but the NIMBYs keep shooting down the public transit overhaul bills.
mrguyorama 5y ago
Why did you need a minivan when a camry or equivalent can easily and now comfortably seat 5?
- zedpm 5y ago
  Have you ever tried installing 3 car seats into a compact car?
  - jandrese 5y ago
    There are some expensive car seats designed to cram all three kids into a back seat, but buying a larger car instead is cheaper. They also tend to be designed for triplets, if all three kids are different sizes it becomes a lot more complicated. Most cars only have attachments for two car seats in the rear, so even if you did have space the middle seat would have to use the generally discouraged seat belt install instead.
    - zedpm 5y ago
      Right, that's my point in responding to the parent comment about fitting 5 people in a Camry; it's not so simple when 3 of them require car seats.
- buscoquadnary 5y ago
  In response to that I will take quote "Only Dead on the Inside" by Author James Breakwell "A minivan has room for luggage. It has room for air. And it has room liquids. That's right: It has space for THREE states of matter. Kids shoot liquid out of every orifice, and it constantly needs to be replenished. The minivan knows that it knows everything. Each minivan has at least twelve state-of-the-art liquid stabilization chambers, known to commoners as cup holders. That's way more than any other vehicle. It's basically a cup holder collection with an engine attached. If you want to you can haul a dozen slushies at once. Can't find slushies at the end of the world, not my problem. I don't have problems. I drive a minivan." More seriously, when we go to visit family you can't fit luggage for a family of 5 and that family in a Camry, also when you have to grocery shop with 3 small children you have to be able to fit both the groceries and the children in the car at the end.
voisin 5y ago
I concur, and try fitting three car seats next to each other in the back of anything but a very large truck or SUV. Never mind the fact that often one parent usually needs to sit next to really young babies for the first year or so.
bromuro 5y ago
So how was it working before all these SUV? We had a “Fiat Panda” as kids and we were five people and never had problems carrying stuff.
spaceisballer 5y ago
A minivan is practical especially with 2 or more kids. In my area vast majority of people have SUVs and pickups and it’s normally one person in it. People have to have that GMC Denali or other equivalent giant vehicle to show off I guess. It’s those big SUVs and pickups that make no sense, people lean towards the “why not?” Instead of “why?”.

davidw 5y ago

Minivans aren't the problem. That's a sensible design for moving a lot of people around. It's those lifted trucks that have a hood taller than some shorter adults, to say nothing of children. New pickups in general are just ridiculous compared to the same models from 30 years ago, which were just fine for, say, actual ranch work.

Joeri 5y ago

I have two kids, not three, but we have never had a car, always taken the kids everywhere on public transport. I’m not going to say every trip was a joyful experience, but imho you are making a way bigger deal out of this than the reality. Although to be fair it depends a lot on the quality of the public options in your metro region. Downside of kids that always travel by public transport: on the rare occasions that they do travel by car, they puke nearly every time. For us public transport is a lot less stressful than traveling by car.

buscoquadnary 5y ago
I applaud your efforts my friend, part of our problem is we've never lived anywhere with good public transit. I will also just throw out the world changes quite dramatically from 2 kids to 3 kids, once those little buggers outnumber you things get a lot more exciting in parenting.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I don’t fault folks who have three kids, but with fertility rates plummeting, it’s not something that should be optimized for. Families are getting smaller over time.
  - dudzik 5y ago
    The question is if families are getting smaller because parents don’t want more kids or because of regulation[0]. Maybe requiring people to have smaller cars or use public transport would further cut the birth rate. I’m only half-serious. I know there is good reason for public transport or having smaller cars in urban environments. 0: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      > Maybe requiring people to have smaller cars or use public transport would further cut the birth rate. This should be easy enough to test by comparing against cohorts in Europe and Asia.
    - Joeri 5y ago
      Generally the deciding factor has been birth control. The more birth control is available and accepted as a choice, the more women choose to postpone their first child, which automatically leads to having fewer children.
  - kiliancs 5y ago
    Fertility rates plummeting is not necessarily a good thing in the long run, so maybe having kids should be incentivized.
ajford 5y ago
Yay for you, but the public transit in my area is useless for getting to the stores or destinations. It's better for commuting into the dense urban area for work hours, but not gonna fly for taking my kids shoe-shopping. That said, glad you have the option for public transit. I'd be happy if my city decided to beef up public transit, but the NIMBYs keep shooting down the public transit overhaul bills.

mrguyorama 5y ago

Why did you need a minivan when a camry or equivalent can easily and now comfortably seat 5?

zedpm 5y ago
Have you ever tried installing 3 car seats into a compact car?
- jandrese 5y ago
  There are some expensive car seats designed to cram all three kids into a back seat, but buying a larger car instead is cheaper. They also tend to be designed for triplets, if all three kids are different sizes it becomes a lot more complicated. Most cars only have attachments for two car seats in the rear, so even if you did have space the middle seat would have to use the generally discouraged seat belt install instead.
  - zedpm 5y ago
    Right, that's my point in responding to the parent comment about fitting 5 people in a Camry; it's not so simple when 3 of them require car seats.
buscoquadnary 5y ago
In response to that I will take quote "Only Dead on the Inside" by Author James Breakwell "A minivan has room for luggage. It has room for air. And it has room liquids. That's right: It has space for THREE states of matter. Kids shoot liquid out of every orifice, and it constantly needs to be replenished. The minivan knows that it knows everything. Each minivan has at least twelve state-of-the-art liquid stabilization chambers, known to commoners as cup holders. That's way more than any other vehicle. It's basically a cup holder collection with an engine attached. If you want to you can haul a dozen slushies at once. Can't find slushies at the end of the world, not my problem. I don't have problems. I drive a minivan." More seriously, when we go to visit family you can't fit luggage for a family of 5 and that family in a Camry, also when you have to grocery shop with 3 small children you have to be able to fit both the groceries and the children in the car at the end.

voisin 5y ago

I concur, and try fitting three car seats next to each other in the back of anything but a very large truck or SUV. Never mind the fact that often one parent usually needs to sit next to really young babies for the first year or so.

bromuro 5y ago

So how was it working before all these SUV? We had a “Fiat Panda” as kids and we were five people and never had problems carrying stuff.

spaceisballer 5y ago

A minivan is practical especially with 2 or more kids. In my area vast majority of people have SUVs and pickups and it’s normally one person in it. People have to have that GMC Denali or other equivalent giant vehicle to show off I guess. It’s those big SUVs and pickups that make no sense, people lean towards the “why not?” Instead of “why?”.