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Yes, this is the issue right on the head. At a $0 income, federal and state grants + student loans will not cover tuition and housing costs at the most affordab

Yes, this is the issue right on the head. At a $0 income, federal and state grants + student loans will not cover tuition and housing costs at the most affordable of in state universities. We can't just look at tuition, but housing costs. The cost of housing sometimes rivals tuition. A fun fact is they make freshmen have to buy $2200 meal plans for their first year. They also prevent freshmen from better housing where they can cook for themselves and save money through food stamps. Ontop of this part of those grants are work study, you have to work to receive that money. This is again even if you're dirt poor with nothing. You will have to take a second job if you need to buy personal items like deodorant. The vast majority of students don't fit into this, they come from middle class parents and have to take out private loans. Students have to pay on private loans, so, again, more and more work. I know students working 30 hours a week just to meet living costs and pay what they owe to the University so they are not barred from signing up for classes. These students are not learning what they should be, even though they are very bright hard workers it's wasted because we let universities charge these ridiculous amounts. It's not as if the unis are using it responsibly, either. They're not funding extracurriculars or programs students can learn more by being involved in. I recall one of our programs having to be funded by professors themselves to go anywhere. There are many different administrative workers that simply don't need to exist. The system has become lazy and inefficient. I recall in HS teachers spent hours grading. In uni - it's largely automatic. Yet we continue to have multiple teachers per subject and give professors just 1 or 2 classes. If we defund universities they will shape up quickly. Defund, regulate, start firing people.

sarchertech 5y ago
>The vast majority of students don't fit into this, they come from middle class parents and have to take out private loans. Private loans only make up about 8% of total student loan debt https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/stude... https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics
- devwastaken 5y ago
  The bill infront of me isnt lying. The amount of student loans is not enough to cover the costs, therefore requiring private loans or someone else to pay it. So either all these parents are paying it, or they're taking out private loans. Or, more likely, the stats are collected poorly as they typically are. Same as how unis are allowed to lie about job placement rates.
  - learc83 5y ago
    The fact that you are forced to take out private loans isn't evidence that the vast majority of students are. College tuitions and housing prices vary wildly, many students live with family, many students have merit based scholarships. Many states have copied Georgia and have lottery funded scholarships that covers the majority of in state tuition for students with a B average in high school. >Or, more likely, the stats are collected poorly as they typically are. The stats are widely available along with the data collection methodology. If you want to stick with your confirmation bias that's fine I suppose.
    - devwastaken 5y ago
      I've done enough work in data collection and stats to know that generalized statistics are almost always associated with false conclusions that avoid context of their data. An org will not advocate against itself willingly because it's workers like their jobs. Therefore, I trust the bill that many students have. The evidence I have readily available concludes that scholarships are rare, student loans aren't enough, and students have become cash cows.
      - learc83 5y ago
        >I've done enough work in data collection and stats to know that generalized statistics are almost always associated with false conclusions that avoid context of their data. There's no context that changes this. Private loans make up less than 8% of all student debt. There are numerous sources available. This isn't in dispute by anyone (except maybe yourself). Given that fact, the only way your premise, that the vast majority of students take private loans, can be true is if most students take very very small private loans of less than a few thousand dollars. And even that is demonstrably false. Because we have data that clearly shows that the vast majority of students don't take private loans. https://research.collegeboard.org/pdf/trends-student-aid-2018-full-report.pdf https://research.collegeboard.org/pdf/trends-student-aid-201... >...that scholarships are rare... More than 75% of full time students receive at least 1 scholarship or grant. Most of them aren't enough to cover the full tuition much less room and board, but they aren't rare. And in many states have large scholarship programs as I've mentioned where tens of thousands of students in the state get that scholarship. >The evidence I have readily available concludes... Confirmation bias is something to watch out for. There's no evidence outside of your personal experience to support the conclusion that "the vast majority of students take private loans."
BingoAhoy 5y ago
I've always been curious about who's winning the lionshare of the pie of these gluttonous institutions. Is it administrators? they're an easy scape goat. Does it fund more research, so presumably the PHDs and their research assistants?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  They are an easy target, but I would argue justifiably so. My ( supposedly non-profit mind you ) university had a president, who paid himself a salary in line with regional bank's president; he was kicked out. Current one is paid less but still high 6 figures. And this is not some prestigious university, where you could reasonably argue he really, really deserves it, because he is running it so well. I don't know a full answer, but I believe we can start with administrators and work our way through the system. Something has got to give. This system cannot stay as it currently exists.

sarchertech 5y ago

>The vast majority of students don't fit into this, they come from middle class parents and have to take out private loans. Private loans only make up about 8% of total student loan debt https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/student-loan-debt https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/stude... https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

devwastaken 5y ago
The bill infront of me isnt lying. The amount of student loans is not enough to cover the costs, therefore requiring private loans or someone else to pay it. So either all these parents are paying it, or they're taking out private loans. Or, more likely, the stats are collected poorly as they typically are. Same as how unis are allowed to lie about job placement rates.
- learc83 5y ago
  The fact that you are forced to take out private loans isn't evidence that the vast majority of students are. College tuitions and housing prices vary wildly, many students live with family, many students have merit based scholarships. Many states have copied Georgia and have lottery funded scholarships that covers the majority of in state tuition for students with a B average in high school. >Or, more likely, the stats are collected poorly as they typically are. The stats are widely available along with the data collection methodology. If you want to stick with your confirmation bias that's fine I suppose.
  - devwastaken 5y ago
    I've done enough work in data collection and stats to know that generalized statistics are almost always associated with false conclusions that avoid context of their data. An org will not advocate against itself willingly because it's workers like their jobs. Therefore, I trust the bill that many students have. The evidence I have readily available concludes that scholarships are rare, student loans aren't enough, and students have become cash cows.
    - learc83 5y ago
      >I've done enough work in data collection and stats to know that generalized statistics are almost always associated with false conclusions that avoid context of their data. There's no context that changes this. Private loans make up less than 8% of all student debt. There are numerous sources available. This isn't in dispute by anyone (except maybe yourself). Given that fact, the only way your premise, that the vast majority of students take private loans, can be true is if most students take very very small private loans of less than a few thousand dollars. And even that is demonstrably false. Because we have data that clearly shows that the vast majority of students don't take private loans. https://research.collegeboard.org/pdf/trends-student-aid-2018-full-report.pdf https://research.collegeboard.org/pdf/trends-student-aid-201... >...that scholarships are rare... More than 75% of full time students receive at least 1 scholarship or grant. Most of them aren't enough to cover the full tuition much less room and board, but they aren't rare. And in many states have large scholarship programs as I've mentioned where tens of thousands of students in the state get that scholarship. >The evidence I have readily available concludes... Confirmation bias is something to watch out for. There's no evidence outside of your personal experience to support the conclusion that "the vast majority of students take private loans."

BingoAhoy 5y ago

I've always been curious about who's winning the lionshare of the pie of these gluttonous institutions. Is it administrators? they're an easy scape goat. Does it fund more research, so presumably the PHDs and their research assistants?

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
They are an easy target, but I would argue justifiably so. My ( supposedly non-profit mind you ) university had a president, who paid himself a salary in line with regional bank's president; he was kicked out. Current one is paid less but still high 6 figures. And this is not some prestigious university, where you could reasonably argue he really, really deserves it, because he is running it so well. I don't know a full answer, but I believe we can start with administrators and work our way through the system. Something has got to give. This system cannot stay as it currently exists.