12 ms·

Windows 8 for tablet hands on

151 points by mingyeow 15y ago

RyanMcGreal 15y ago
> the desktop that you've grown used to in Windows 7 is still present, albeit as an app Interesting parallel with the introduction of Windows. Windows 3.1 still ran entirely on top of DOS; but DOS was demoted in Windows 95 and replaced entirely in Windows NT, from which point it has run as a VM on top of the OS.
- lloeki 15y ago
  Is the Windows 7 Desktop a self-contained app in Windows 8, or is Windows 8 Metro UI a front-end atop the Windows 7 Desktop?
- Rusky 15y ago
  Add to that the fact that Hyper-V is part of Windows 8 - interesting possibilities.
eykanal 15y ago
So, it's not "Windows Tablet 8", or "Windows Mobile 8", just "Windows 8"? Does this mean this is also going to be the desktop OS?
- spaetzel 15y ago
  Yes, it's one OS for all Windows devices.
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    I think that's the eventual plan, but Phones will still have their separate OS for now, right? Unless they announced something differently today...
    - Lewisham 15y ago
      Phones will continue to have a separate OS, but as both are branded Metro, I would hazard most users wouldn't be aware of there being any difference. One is just on a smaller screen and doesn't come with the desktop fallback. Metro will also be appearing on 360 soon.
      - josephcooney 15y ago
        Really? I'd heard the opposite - Windows Phone 8 will _be_ Windows 8. Has anything been said at Build to the contrary?
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  Why isn't Engadget mentioning the chip it's running. That's very strange. Because if it does run Intel's chip as rumored, then this is the version to run on the desktop, but not the one to run on ARM, so it probably has lower battery life.
  - derwildemomo 15y ago
    http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-video-preview/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v... gruber linked to that one. chip is mentioned, it's a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M.
    - recoiledsnake 15y ago
      I see that Gruber's already piling on the snark about it having a fan etc. What he misses is that there's choice, if you want a fanless ARM tablet, Windows 8 will run on it, there were a lot of demos of it doing so. But if you want a more powerful tablet with a Core i5 processor and don't mind the heat and noise that much, then there that option too. Whereas if you want a more powerful iPad, you're SOL.
      - cooldeal 15y ago
        His next two posts are even worse. Gruber is nothing but a partisan hack and this proves it. No wonder he is held in high regard only by Apple enthusiasts.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - joeguilmette 15y ago
        I mean, am I only one that sees a 'powerful' tablet as a drawback? Size, weight and battery life are three of the most important features of my iPad. Further, the non-fragmentation of the App Store is nice, a 1G iPad can run pretty much everything a 2G iPad can. Why would I want to buy in to an ecosystem where developers are worrying about developing to the lowest common denominator? Would they consider optimizing their App for the 10% of their market that bought the Core i5 tablet vs for the ARM (in a total market size with 5 % of the tablet market)? What benefit would you really see from a tablet with so much processing power? A I going to sacrifice all of that battery life so I can render video faster? Ok, but what if they just let the tablet run all the apps that work on the desktop. Great. Now my overpowered tablet that has two hours of battery life and has a fan in it is running apps that aren't even optimized for a tablet form factor? This does not bode well.
sriramk 15y ago
As someone who worked for MSFT for so long, this bit really makes me happy - mostly since no one would have given this much odds of happening. "With the introduction of OS X Lion, Apple gave us a glimpse at what a post-PC operating system might look like, and now Microsoft's gone and pushed that idea to the limit. If Cupertino's latest was a tease, than Windows 8 is full frontal. And we have to admit, we like what we see. "
- dr_rezzy 15y ago
  This makes me really excited about the future of the 'desktop' ( => tablet). Microsoft has really nailed it in terms of user experience and performance. This is a good example of out innovating the competition and no other company is better suited to execute on this than Microsoft.
  - nextparadigms 15y ago
    How do you know they nailed it in terms of performance? It's running on a Core i5, on which even Vista or Windows 7 runs well. We don't know how well it will run on Atom or ARM yet, which will be the "tablet optimized" chips, with higher battery life. The Core i5 will give 2 hours of battery life, especially in such a small package compared to a notebook.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - barista 15y ago
      They did show an ARM tablet as well. Besides by the time it is released, processors would have gotten even better.
      - barista 15y ago
        Just see the keynote again. It actually uses less resources even today as compared to Windows 7 SP1.
RexRollman 15y ago
I think Windows 8 will be interesting. The one thing I don't like about Windows, since Vista, is the splintering of the client version (basic, home, professional, ultimate). I think MS should just make one client version for a flat $150.00.
- ben_straub 15y ago
  Microsoft isn't Apple. Their biggest customers aren't end users; they're large corporations with thousands of users, and PC manufacturers. Tempting end users is just marketing to them. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...
  - RexRollman 15y ago
    You're probably right, but having so many versions of Windows is asinine, in my opinion.
    - barista 15y ago
      I actually prefer taht. It gives me a choice to pay for whatever I need to use as opposed to Apple where no matter whether I need it or not, I have to pay.
      - RexRollman 15y ago
        Yeah, but the differences are artificial in nature. Everything is installed, regardless of which version you use, so that anytime upgrade will work.
nextparadigms 15y ago
According to TIMN it's running an Intel Core i5. Wow. Seriously? I realize this is just a developer preview device, but if Windows 8 needs that kind of power, then what about ARM tablets that are supposed to compete with iPad? How will it run on them? And how much battery life will it have on those Intel-powered tablets? These questions are all unanswered and Engadget didn't even touch on any of them. "All of the above sections should give you a solid look at what Windows 8 is shaping up to be, but what about the hardware? While we got a look at the OS running on a few laptops and all-in-ones during the press preview meeting, we’ve spent most of the time testing the OS on the prototype tablet. Powered by a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M processor and a 64GB solid state drive, the system is absolutely no slouch on performance — everything from scrolling in the browser to the Start screen is extremely speedy and the system boots incredibly quickly. However, fan noise is very noticeable, as is the heat coming out of the top vent, and a fast boot doesn’t excuse the slow wake-up times compared to ARM-based cellphones and tablets." http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-video-preview/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v...
- jra101 15y ago
  They also showed ARM devices from NVIDIA, Samsung, and Qualcomm running the same build of Windows 8 with no problems.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  These questions aren't unanswered; Windows 8 has been demoed on many ARM devices now, and the build conference demos show specifically how tuned for power usage it is. The new kernel is very much focused on power management.
- varunsrin 15y ago
  These are developer devices - meant for compiling code. Therefore, they are high powered, chock full of every hardware feature that Win 8 will support, so that devs can play around with them, compile code and use them as their primary machine. This is a desktop replacement machine for development, not an iPad replacement.
  - 15y ago
ChuckMcM 15y ago
This looks pretty nice, its good to see M$ being able to step so far out of their comfort zone vis-a-vis competition between the 'core' windows franchise and the 'other' products. My belief was that the thing that really killed the 'Tablet' version of windows was that they didn't have an 'all in' mode where there was no legacy PC stuff there.
- cooldeal 15y ago
  'M$' ? Really? Didn't expect to see that on HN. Thought people were more mature here.
  - ChuckMcM 15y ago
    I agree, that the HN community would downvote folks who complement Microsoft seems very immature indeed.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      Criticizing Microsoft also gives a lot of downvotes with it.
  - barista 15y ago
    Thats why windows 8 stories are somewhere on the middle of the front apge whereas the top story is about some tweak google did to their flight search. This is HN!
- danssig 15y ago
  Out of their comfort zone? They're just trying "full pc in tablet form" yet again.
hasanove 15y ago
Am I the only one who virtually never uses windows desktop? I am either in particular app, or just click "start", type a few letters and run what I need. My desktop is just a background when nothing is running. Windows 8 new desktop might make it useful again.
- Random_Person 15y ago
  I don't use a desktop on any OS for anything other than temp storage for files. I use Chrome/Geany/terminal 90% of the time and I have quick launch shortcuts for those in both Windows and Linux. On my Android phone, however, I use the "desktop" exclusively to find what I need. Maybe transitioning desktop UI's to something similar is a great move.
  - RexRollman 15y ago
    Exactly. When using Windows I have Firefox set to download to the desktop, from which I file things into their target folders or the trash. Otherwise, my desktop is icon free.
- barrkel 15y ago
  My desktop is split between two monitors; the left monitor is for regular work and is usually covered up by full-screen (or close to it) applications. The right monitor is full of a cascade of windows, so each window is selectable from their bottom left corners. Apart from that, the background is just used to show pictures. It's surprisingly awkward with multiple monitors: I had to write a program that composed the pictures I wanted to display, then set that new picture as a tiled background. If you don't do that correctly, and you have multiple monitors with different resolutions, you end up with either the same image on all monitors, or clipped / stretched / distorted versions on all but the "home" monitor (the one that owns (0,0)).
- Geee 15y ago
  You should also get Launchy http://www.launchy.net/ http://www.launchy.net/ It's the best thing since sliced bread for Windows, I've been using it for a couple of years now and can't go back. Just hit alt-space, enter few letters and launch. Just like Awesomebar but for launching apps. It indexes all files if you want and it's quick as snap. Apparently it's also available for Mac and Linux.
r00fus 15y ago
Ok, Metro looks nice. I just hope they do similar to Apple and provide something between "mouse" and "touch"... like all the trackpad gestures Apple uses to make their desktop OS more touch-oriented while avoiding the dreaded gorilla arm https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Touchscreen#Gorilla_arm https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Touchscreen#G...
saturdaysaint 15y ago
It looks very streamlined and powerful - quite arguably more functional than today's iPad - but it's problematic that I don't see anything that makes anyones' life appreciably better. A Flipboard clone, mobile Internet, Twitter, Photos - nothing revolutionary. Really, really good, but nothing to give an iPad or Xoom owner buyer's remorse unless these are ridiculously cheap (I don't see how they'll have any price advantage over Apple or Googlerolla). Tablets will own this holiday season, which MS is missing out on, and remember that Windows 8 tablets will ship in the shadow of the iPad 3. Which, in turn, means that Android and iPad will remain the lead platform for large form touchscreen apps for the medium term future. So: nice, but this doesn't stop their disruption.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  When the build conference keynote's over, watch the recording. I think the killer feature will be having every device you pick up be tailored to you. When you hand it to your wife, it's tailored to her... just by signing in with a Windows Live ID instead of a local user/password. Your contacts, e-mail, calendar, photos, files, apps, desktop, bookmarks, individual app settings -- it will all be there on whatever device you pick up, whether it's a tablet, a phone, a desktop PC, your work PC. Windows 8 uses Microsoft's cloud to bust through firewalls on every end to connect every device you touch.
  - joeguilmette 15y ago
    Kind of like iCloud?
    - encoderer 15y ago
      Exactly, except this time, it'll be on the devices that have 85% market share.
      - saturdaysaint 15y ago
        Can you really imagine an average consumer being impressed that a tablet, identical in almost every way to the Android next to it, is running Windows? If not, it's really time to rethink Windows' dominant consumer marketshare.
nextparadigms 15y ago
This explains why Engadget never said anything about the hardware it was running on. They were prohibited to say anything about it. I wonder why? "Keep this in mind as you read: both the operating system and hardware are developer preview builds. In fact, the [REDACTED] hardware (we're prohibited from even revealing its manufacturer or specs) isn't even going to run Windows 8."* http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fantastic-but-dont-sell-your-ipad http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fant...
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  I don't know why you're making a big deal of this in multiple posts but the specs were shown in a slide in BUILD, so it's not like a big secret or conspiracy to hide the specs.
thirdsun 15y ago
The touch-enabled part of this preview and the fact that Microsoft stays close to their excellent Metro UI looks very promising. I also see the point of keeping the traditional windows elements like the desktop or explorer. However I really don't get why the explorer has to stay that traditional. I'm sure there would have been a way to make it usable with mouse AND touch input - maybe by replacing all those ribbon elements by only the most commonly used actions as icon only, preferably in Metro style. Right now this feels like an unnecessary break from the promising and fresh approach that is Metro on a desktop (or tablet).
J3L2404 15y ago
Will I have to do a clean install of the OS?
- RexRollman 15y ago
  In my opinion, one should never do a in place upgrade of a OS across major versions. Back up your files first and then do a proper install.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    Debian (and Ubuntu) users have been doing it for many, many years without severe problems.
Sindrome 15y ago
A somebody who does .Net development as a day job. This is very exciting!
csomar 15y ago
I have mixed feelings for developing for Windows 8. I got my hands a little on Visual Studio, and it's hands-down the most powerful, stable and complete IDE I ever used. If Microsoft could have something similar for coding with JavaScript,and HTML; along with tools for storage, database, revision control, testing, jquery... integrated inside that IDE. Well, I just can't miss programming with it.
- stoptothink 15y ago
  I was at a .NET user group meeting last week. Scott Hanselman showed off the current development build; guess what, it has the same support for HTML, JS, Jquery, and CSS editing that it has for MS languages.
  - csomar 15y ago
    Mind-blowing :) Anything online showing this?
    - lvillani 15y ago
      I guess you can try it yourself (if you have a VM or a partition to spare). Steven Sinofsky says they're going to make Windows 8 Developer Preview ISOs (with and without development tools) available to everyone: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-win...
kms002 15y ago
What's really interesting to me is that Windows 8 seems almost entirely focused on the consumer market. What about those of us using our desktop PCs every day to do real work? I mean, do we really have to boot into that fancy-pants Metro UI every time we want to actually get something done? I'm totally fine with swiping this way and that when using a tablet PC (I love my iPad), but when I sit down at a desktop PC, I want a mouse/keyboard driven experience - period.
Pewpewarrows 15y ago
Very excited to play with this hands-on tonight/tomorrow. My only concerns are as follows: - Multiple monitors. How does this play nicely with them, and how I traditionally lay-out several open applications across them? Can one monitor be Metro UI and the other be the classical desktop? Or, can I have a full-screen app on one monitor that doesn't brick the other screen? (Looking at you, OSX Lion) - App windows that might not necessarily fit into the tile or fullscreen approach. The prime example of this is my chat/social desktop or space. I typically have a contacts list, tabbed chat window, IRC, and twitter feed all on the same monitor arranged around one another. I know they demoed a way to do split-screen apps while still in the Metro UI, but it seemed to be too simple for real use. - How jarring is the switch between Metro and the retro desktop? If I'm going along fine at 90% productivity living completely in the Metro UI on my monitors, and then all of a sudden need to open a small window from a legacy app, is that going to completely monopolize my workspace? If half of my apps work in Metro, and the other half don't while programming, am I going to have to keep switching between the UIs every 30 seconds as I'm working? That would be a pretty big deal-breaker.
- pcj 15y ago
  For multiple monitors - yes, you can have 1 monitor dedicated for Metro and the other for classic Desktop and I believe you can flip between them as well. And believe the keynote demo also addressed your 2nd question on that.
  - joenathan 15y ago
    Yeah, if you are familiar with Display Fusion, all that functionality is now build into windows.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sdo 15y ago
The design seems to be missing attractiveness and simplicity. For example, the Start text on the screen is totally a bad user interface. It's much easier to imagine and remember with images, then to get more help with text. Try to give it to a toddler to see how he/she master the device. This is so fundamental, and I think this is going to be a failure for MS.
danssig 15y ago
This is largely an entrepreneurial site, so tell me: if you tried a concept and it failed, then you repackaged and tried again with another failure (redo this step multiple times as necessary), then saw someone else alter your concept and have enormous success would you: a) Learn from them and make a product that competes in that space or b) Try your same multiple-times-failed strategy again? If you're MS it seems option b is the right answer. PC in tablet form, take... what, 5?
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  In what why is this the same strategy? Windows 8 has a completely new API. Win32, which has been around since the early 90s is gone. The new API doesn't even have the concept of overlapping windows. WinRT talks directly to the kernel. In that respect, Windows 8 is as much of a "new thing" as the iPad or Android or any other tablet OS. The only thing they've chosen to do differently is in marketing. The other tablet OSes are marketed as completely new things and Microsoft is marketing it as an iteration on an old thing.
  - danssig 15y ago
    Is it going to be the same thing they sell on the desktop? That's the goal, right? So it's PC in tablet form. Just like every time they've tried it before.
    - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
      It's a tablet in desktop form. Everything but the kernel was rewritten with the tablet as the default use case.

151 points by mingyeow 15y ago

> the desktop that you've grown used to in Windows 7 is still present, albeit as an app Interesting parallel with the introduction of Windows. Windows 3.1 still ran entirely on top of DOS; but DOS was demoted in Windows 95 and replaced entirely in Windows NT, from which point it has run as a VM on top of the OS.

lloeki 15y ago
Is the Windows 7 Desktop a self-contained app in Windows 8, or is Windows 8 Metro UI a front-end atop the Windows 7 Desktop?
Rusky 15y ago
Add to that the fact that Hyper-V is part of Windows 8 - interesting possibilities.

eykanal 15y ago

So, it's not "Windows Tablet 8", or "Windows Mobile 8", just "Windows 8"? Does this mean this is also going to be the desktop OS?

spaetzel 15y ago
Yes, it's one OS for all Windows devices.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  I think that's the eventual plan, but Phones will still have their separate OS for now, right? Unless they announced something differently today...
  - Lewisham 15y ago
    Phones will continue to have a separate OS, but as both are branded Metro, I would hazard most users wouldn't be aware of there being any difference. One is just on a smaller screen and doesn't come with the desktop fallback. Metro will also be appearing on 360 soon.
    - josephcooney 15y ago
      Really? I'd heard the opposite - Windows Phone 8 will _be_ Windows 8. Has anything been said at Build to the contrary?
nextparadigms 15y ago
Why isn't Engadget mentioning the chip it's running. That's very strange. Because if it does run Intel's chip as rumored, then this is the version to run on the desktop, but not the one to run on ARM, so it probably has lower battery life.
- derwildemomo 15y ago
  http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-video-preview/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v... gruber linked to that one. chip is mentioned, it's a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    I see that Gruber's already piling on the snark about it having a fan etc. What he misses is that there's choice, if you want a fanless ARM tablet, Windows 8 will run on it, there were a lot of demos of it doing so. But if you want a more powerful tablet with a Core i5 processor and don't mind the heat and noise that much, then there that option too. Whereas if you want a more powerful iPad, you're SOL.
    - cooldeal 15y ago
      His next two posts are even worse. Gruber is nothing but a partisan hack and this proves it. No wonder he is held in high regard only by Apple enthusiasts.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
    - joeguilmette 15y ago
      I mean, am I only one that sees a 'powerful' tablet as a drawback? Size, weight and battery life are three of the most important features of my iPad. Further, the non-fragmentation of the App Store is nice, a 1G iPad can run pretty much everything a 2G iPad can. Why would I want to buy in to an ecosystem where developers are worrying about developing to the lowest common denominator? Would they consider optimizing their App for the 10% of their market that bought the Core i5 tablet vs for the ARM (in a total market size with 5 % of the tablet market)? What benefit would you really see from a tablet with so much processing power? A I going to sacrifice all of that battery life so I can render video faster? Ok, but what if they just let the tablet run all the apps that work on the desktop. Great. Now my overpowered tablet that has two hours of battery life and has a fan in it is running apps that aren't even optimized for a tablet form factor? This does not bode well.

sriramk 15y ago

As someone who worked for MSFT for so long, this bit really makes me happy - mostly since no one would have given this much odds of happening. "With the introduction of OS X Lion, Apple gave us a glimpse at what a post-PC operating system might look like, and now Microsoft's gone and pushed that idea to the limit. If Cupertino's latest was a tease, than Windows 8 is full frontal. And we have to admit, we like what we see. "

dr_rezzy 15y ago
This makes me really excited about the future of the 'desktop' ( => tablet). Microsoft has really nailed it in terms of user experience and performance. This is a good example of out innovating the competition and no other company is better suited to execute on this than Microsoft.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  How do you know they nailed it in terms of performance? It's running on a Core i5, on which even Vista or Windows 7 runs well. We don't know how well it will run on Atom or ARM yet, which will be the "tablet optimized" chips, with higher battery life. The Core i5 will give 2 hours of battery life, especially in such a small package compared to a notebook.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - barista 15y ago
    They did show an ARM tablet as well. Besides by the time it is released, processors would have gotten even better.
    - barista 15y ago
      Just see the keynote again. It actually uses less resources even today as compared to Windows 7 SP1.

RexRollman 15y ago

I think Windows 8 will be interesting. The one thing I don't like about Windows, since Vista, is the splintering of the client version (basic, home, professional, ultimate). I think MS should just make one client version for a flat $150.00.

ben_straub 15y ago
Microsoft isn't Apple. Their biggest customers aren't end users; they're large corporations with thousands of users, and PC manufacturers. Tempting end users is just marketing to them. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...
- RexRollman 15y ago
  You're probably right, but having so many versions of Windows is asinine, in my opinion.
  - barista 15y ago
    I actually prefer taht. It gives me a choice to pay for whatever I need to use as opposed to Apple where no matter whether I need it or not, I have to pay.
    - RexRollman 15y ago
      Yeah, but the differences are artificial in nature. Everything is installed, regardless of which version you use, so that anytime upgrade will work.

nextparadigms 15y ago

According to TIMN it's running an Intel Core i5. Wow. Seriously? I realize this is just a developer preview device, but if Windows 8 needs that kind of power, then what about ARM tablets that are supposed to compete with iPad? How will it run on them? And how much battery life will it have on those Intel-powered tablets? These questions are all unanswered and Engadget didn't even touch on any of them. "All of the above sections should give you a solid look at what Windows 8 is shaping up to be, but what about the hardware? While we got a look at the OS running on a few laptops and all-in-ones during the press preview meeting, we’ve spent most of the time testing the OS on the prototype tablet. Powered by a 1.6GHz Core i5-2467M processor and a 64GB solid state drive, the system is absolutely no slouch on performance — everything from scrolling in the browser to the Start screen is extremely speedy and the system boots incredibly quickly. However, fan noise is very noticeable, as is the heat coming out of the top vent, and a fast boot doesn’t excuse the slow wake-up times compared to ARM-based cellphones and tablets." http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-video-preview/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/13/windows-8-tablet-photos-v...

jra101 15y ago
They also showed ARM devices from NVIDIA, Samsung, and Qualcomm running the same build of Windows 8 with no problems.
dangrossman 15y ago
These questions aren't unanswered; Windows 8 has been demoed on many ARM devices now, and the build conference demos show specifically how tuned for power usage it is. The new kernel is very much focused on power management.
varunsrin 15y ago
These are developer devices - meant for compiling code. Therefore, they are high powered, chock full of every hardware feature that Win 8 will support, so that devs can play around with them, compile code and use them as their primary machine. This is a desktop replacement machine for development, not an iPad replacement.
- 15y ago

ChuckMcM 15y ago

This looks pretty nice, its good to see M$ being able to step so far out of their comfort zone vis-a-vis competition between the 'core' windows franchise and the 'other' products. My belief was that the thing that really killed the 'Tablet' version of windows was that they didn't have an 'all in' mode where there was no legacy PC stuff there.

cooldeal 15y ago
'M$' ? Really? Didn't expect to see that on HN. Thought people were more mature here.
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  I agree, that the HN community would downvote folks who complement Microsoft seems very immature indeed.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    Criticizing Microsoft also gives a lot of downvotes with it.
- barista 15y ago
  Thats why windows 8 stories are somewhere on the middle of the front apge whereas the top story is about some tweak google did to their flight search. This is HN!
danssig 15y ago
Out of their comfort zone? They're just trying "full pc in tablet form" yet again.

hasanove 15y ago

Am I the only one who virtually never uses windows desktop? I am either in particular app, or just click "start", type a few letters and run what I need. My desktop is just a background when nothing is running. Windows 8 new desktop might make it useful again.

Random_Person 15y ago
I don't use a desktop on any OS for anything other than temp storage for files. I use Chrome/Geany/terminal 90% of the time and I have quick launch shortcuts for those in both Windows and Linux. On my Android phone, however, I use the "desktop" exclusively to find what I need. Maybe transitioning desktop UI's to something similar is a great move.
- RexRollman 15y ago
  Exactly. When using Windows I have Firefox set to download to the desktop, from which I file things into their target folders or the trash. Otherwise, my desktop is icon free.
barrkel 15y ago
My desktop is split between two monitors; the left monitor is for regular work and is usually covered up by full-screen (or close to it) applications. The right monitor is full of a cascade of windows, so each window is selectable from their bottom left corners. Apart from that, the background is just used to show pictures. It's surprisingly awkward with multiple monitors: I had to write a program that composed the pictures I wanted to display, then set that new picture as a tiled background. If you don't do that correctly, and you have multiple monitors with different resolutions, you end up with either the same image on all monitors, or clipped / stretched / distorted versions on all but the "home" monitor (the one that owns (0,0)).
Geee 15y ago
You should also get Launchy http://www.launchy.net/ http://www.launchy.net/ It's the best thing since sliced bread for Windows, I've been using it for a couple of years now and can't go back. Just hit alt-space, enter few letters and launch. Just like Awesomebar but for launching apps. It indexes all files if you want and it's quick as snap. Apparently it's also available for Mac and Linux.

r00fus 15y ago

Ok, Metro looks nice. I just hope they do similar to Apple and provide something between "mouse" and "touch"... like all the trackpad gestures Apple uses to make their desktop OS more touch-oriented while avoiding the dreaded gorilla arm https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Touchscreen#Gorilla_arm https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Touchscreen#G...

saturdaysaint 15y ago

It looks very streamlined and powerful - quite arguably more functional than today's iPad - but it's problematic that I don't see anything that makes anyones' life appreciably better. A Flipboard clone, mobile Internet, Twitter, Photos - nothing revolutionary. Really, really good, but nothing to give an iPad or Xoom owner buyer's remorse unless these are ridiculously cheap (I don't see how they'll have any price advantage over Apple or Googlerolla). Tablets will own this holiday season, which MS is missing out on, and remember that Windows 8 tablets will ship in the shadow of the iPad 3. Which, in turn, means that Android and iPad will remain the lead platform for large form touchscreen apps for the medium term future. So: nice, but this doesn't stop their disruption.

dangrossman 15y ago
When the build conference keynote's over, watch the recording. I think the killer feature will be having every device you pick up be tailored to you. When you hand it to your wife, it's tailored to her... just by signing in with a Windows Live ID instead of a local user/password. Your contacts, e-mail, calendar, photos, files, apps, desktop, bookmarks, individual app settings -- it will all be there on whatever device you pick up, whether it's a tablet, a phone, a desktop PC, your work PC. Windows 8 uses Microsoft's cloud to bust through firewalls on every end to connect every device you touch.
- joeguilmette 15y ago
  Kind of like iCloud?
  - encoderer 15y ago
    Exactly, except this time, it'll be on the devices that have 85% market share.
    - saturdaysaint 15y ago
      Can you really imagine an average consumer being impressed that a tablet, identical in almost every way to the Android next to it, is running Windows? If not, it's really time to rethink Windows' dominant consumer marketshare.

nextparadigms 15y ago

This explains why Engadget never said anything about the hardware it was running on. They were prohibited to say anything about it. I wonder why? "Keep this in mind as you read: both the operating system and hardware are developer preview builds. In fact, the [REDACTED] hardware (we're prohibited from even revealing its manufacturer or specs) isn't even going to run Windows 8."* http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fantastic-but-dont-sell-your-ipad http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fant...

recoiledsnake 15y ago
I don't know why you're making a big deal of this in multiple posts but the specs were shown in a slide in BUILD, so it's not like a big secret or conspiracy to hide the specs.

thirdsun 15y ago

The touch-enabled part of this preview and the fact that Microsoft stays close to their excellent Metro UI looks very promising. I also see the point of keeping the traditional windows elements like the desktop or explorer. However I really don't get why the explorer has to stay that traditional. I'm sure there would have been a way to make it usable with mouse AND touch input - maybe by replacing all those ribbon elements by only the most commonly used actions as icon only, preferably in Metro style. Right now this feels like an unnecessary break from the promising and fresh approach that is Metro on a desktop (or tablet).

J3L2404 15y ago

Will I have to do a clean install of the OS?

RexRollman 15y ago
In my opinion, one should never do a in place upgrade of a OS across major versions. Back up your files first and then do a proper install.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Debian (and Ubuntu) users have been doing it for many, many years without severe problems.

Sindrome 15y ago

A somebody who does .Net development as a day job. This is very exciting!

csomar 15y ago

I have mixed feelings for developing for Windows 8. I got my hands a little on Visual Studio, and it's hands-down the most powerful, stable and complete IDE I ever used. If Microsoft could have something similar for coding with JavaScript,and HTML; along with tools for storage, database, revision control, testing, jquery... integrated inside that IDE. Well, I just can't miss programming with it.

stoptothink 15y ago
I was at a .NET user group meeting last week. Scott Hanselman showed off the current development build; guess what, it has the same support for HTML, JS, Jquery, and CSS editing that it has for MS languages.
- csomar 15y ago
  Mind-blowing :) Anything online showing this?
  - lvillani 15y ago
    I guess you can try it yourself (if you have a VM or a partition to spare). Steven Sinofsky says they're going to make Windows 8 Developer Preview ISOs (with and without development tools) available to everyone: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-win...

kms002 15y ago

What's really interesting to me is that Windows 8 seems almost entirely focused on the consumer market. What about those of us using our desktop PCs every day to do real work? I mean, do we really have to boot into that fancy-pants Metro UI every time we want to actually get something done? I'm totally fine with swiping this way and that when using a tablet PC (I love my iPad), but when I sit down at a desktop PC, I want a mouse/keyboard driven experience - period.

Pewpewarrows 15y ago

Very excited to play with this hands-on tonight/tomorrow. My only concerns are as follows: - Multiple monitors. How does this play nicely with them, and how I traditionally lay-out several open applications across them? Can one monitor be Metro UI and the other be the classical desktop? Or, can I have a full-screen app on one monitor that doesn't brick the other screen? (Looking at you, OSX Lion) - App windows that might not necessarily fit into the tile or fullscreen approach. The prime example of this is my chat/social desktop or space. I typically have a contacts list, tabbed chat window, IRC, and twitter feed all on the same monitor arranged around one another. I know they demoed a way to do split-screen apps while still in the Metro UI, but it seemed to be too simple for real use. - How jarring is the switch between Metro and the retro desktop? If I'm going along fine at 90% productivity living completely in the Metro UI on my monitors, and then all of a sudden need to open a small window from a legacy app, is that going to completely monopolize my workspace? If half of my apps work in Metro, and the other half don't while programming, am I going to have to keep switching between the UIs every 30 seconds as I'm working? That would be a pretty big deal-breaker.

pcj 15y ago
For multiple monitors - yes, you can have 1 monitor dedicated for Metro and the other for classic Desktop and I believe you can flip between them as well. And believe the keynote demo also addressed your 2nd question on that.
- joenathan 15y ago
  Yeah, if you are familiar with Display Fusion, all that functionality is now build into windows.

deleted 15y ago

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sdo 15y ago

The design seems to be missing attractiveness and simplicity. For example, the Start text on the screen is totally a bad user interface. It's much easier to imagine and remember with images, then to get more help with text. Try to give it to a toddler to see how he/she master the device. This is so fundamental, and I think this is going to be a failure for MS.

danssig 15y ago

This is largely an entrepreneurial site, so tell me: if you tried a concept and it failed, then you repackaged and tried again with another failure (redo this step multiple times as necessary), then saw someone else alter your concept and have enormous success would you: a) Learn from them and make a product that competes in that space or b) Try your same multiple-times-failed strategy again? If you're MS it seems option b is the right answer. PC in tablet form, take... what, 5?

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
In what why is this the same strategy? Windows 8 has a completely new API. Win32, which has been around since the early 90s is gone. The new API doesn't even have the concept of overlapping windows. WinRT talks directly to the kernel. In that respect, Windows 8 is as much of a "new thing" as the iPad or Android or any other tablet OS. The only thing they've chosen to do differently is in marketing. The other tablet OSes are marketed as completely new things and Microsoft is marketing it as an iteration on an old thing.
- danssig 15y ago
  Is it going to be the same thing they sell on the desktop? That's the goal, right? So it's PC in tablet form. Just like every time they've tried it before.
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    It's a tablet in desktop form. Everything but the kernel was rewritten with the tablet as the default use case.