3 ms·

I sure hope so, maybe my friends who grew up in the Bay Area who are not techies will be able to move back home if they want to.

raldi 5y ago
California’s not even building housing at the rate that existing families are having babies. Even if there were zero in-migration, there still wouldn’t be enough housing for the rising generation.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
The reason they can't move back is mostly not due to techies inflating housing costs, but due to artificially, deliberately and chronically restricted supply of housing, implemented via policies such as zoning. It's an artificial scarcity that can be undone by legislation, but you need legislators (of both sexes) to grow some balls first.
- sockgrant 5y ago
  They’re both issues contributing to rising housing costs.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    High wages would not increase housing costs, unless there was insufficient housing. We should be fighting for higher wages everywhere, not limiting them because we gave away all our power to landlords.
    - sockgrant 5y ago
      High wages won’t impact a housing market with infinite supply but that’s not reality. When there’s a lack of supply then the top earners set the market. When top earners make more then prices are higher.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > They’re both issues contributing to rising housing costs Do you think Detroit is celebrating the demise of its automakers for having reduced property values? Bay Area homeowners are lords who convinced their peasants that the merchants are eating their lunch.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      > Do you think Detroit is celebrating the demise of its automakers for having reduced property values? The automakers aren't gone, they just moved out of the city and took the jobs with them. Detroit home values also were not as inflated as San Francisco home values. Sometimes two things are actually different.
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > automakers aren't gone, they just moved out of the city and took the jobs with them The transmission mechanism between industry and home prices is employment. The people praying for an exodus of tech workers should also be prepared for the impact it would have on the public purse.
        long_time_gone 5y ago
        California's reliance on state income taxes over property taxes should help soften the blow.
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > California's reliance on state income taxes over property taxes should help soften the blow Assuming someone leaving the Bay Area will go elsewhere in California. And even if they move to e.g. Sacramento, why would their tax dollars continue going to the Bay? Their votes moved with them.
        long_time_gone 5y ago
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    Sure, buy one (well-paid techies) is a minor, possibly vanishingly minor cause, and the other (artificially restricted supply) is the major, fundamental root cause.
    - sockgrant 5y ago
      Would a housing supply shortage in Mississippi produce equally priced housing as a housing shortage in San Francisco?
almost_usual 5y ago
I don’t see the Bay Area getting cheaper anytime soon.
epistasis 5y ago
Tech didn't cause the housing shortage, that's entirely the responsibility of long-time residents that control the very local government structures that restrict housing. As bad as the SF Bay Area is, it's not as bad as LA when it comes to salary-housing cost mismatch. So the average person who was born in LA is even worse off than the Bay Area. Tech is not the cause of California's housing problems. Those local power brokers that own the land and profit off of housing scarcity are also setting the narrative. So by creating a tech boogie man, they can deflect any political energy away from any solution that might help the housing situation, from which they directly profit.

raldi 5y ago

California’s not even building housing at the rate that existing families are having babies. Even if there were zero in-migration, there still wouldn’t be enough housing for the rising generation.

kspacewalk2 5y ago

The reason they can't move back is mostly not due to techies inflating housing costs, but due to artificially, deliberately and chronically restricted supply of housing, implemented via policies such as zoning. It's an artificial scarcity that can be undone by legislation, but you need legislators (of both sexes) to grow some balls first.

sockgrant 5y ago
They’re both issues contributing to rising housing costs.
- epistasis 5y ago
  High wages would not increase housing costs, unless there was insufficient housing. We should be fighting for higher wages everywhere, not limiting them because we gave away all our power to landlords.
  - sockgrant 5y ago
    High wages won’t impact a housing market with infinite supply but that’s not reality. When there’s a lack of supply then the top earners set the market. When top earners make more then prices are higher.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > They’re both issues contributing to rising housing costs Do you think Detroit is celebrating the demise of its automakers for having reduced property values? Bay Area homeowners are lords who convinced their peasants that the merchants are eating their lunch.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    > Do you think Detroit is celebrating the demise of its automakers for having reduced property values? The automakers aren't gone, they just moved out of the city and took the jobs with them. Detroit home values also were not as inflated as San Francisco home values. Sometimes two things are actually different.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > automakers aren't gone, they just moved out of the city and took the jobs with them The transmission mechanism between industry and home prices is employment. The people praying for an exodus of tech workers should also be prepared for the impact it would have on the public purse.
      - long_time_gone 5y ago
        California's reliance on state income taxes over property taxes should help soften the blow.
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > California's reliance on state income taxes over property taxes should help soften the blow Assuming someone leaving the Bay Area will go elsewhere in California. And even if they move to e.g. Sacramento, why would their tax dollars continue going to the Bay? Their votes moved with them.
        long_time_gone 5y ago
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  Sure, buy one (well-paid techies) is a minor, possibly vanishingly minor cause, and the other (artificially restricted supply) is the major, fundamental root cause.
  - sockgrant 5y ago
    Would a housing supply shortage in Mississippi produce equally priced housing as a housing shortage in San Francisco?

almost_usual 5y ago

I don’t see the Bay Area getting cheaper anytime soon.

epistasis 5y ago

Tech didn't cause the housing shortage, that's entirely the responsibility of long-time residents that control the very local government structures that restrict housing. As bad as the SF Bay Area is, it's not as bad as LA when it comes to salary-housing cost mismatch. So the average person who was born in LA is even worse off than the Bay Area. Tech is not the cause of California's housing problems. Those local power brokers that own the land and profit off of housing scarcity are also setting the narrative. So by creating a tech boogie man, they can deflect any political energy away from any solution that might help the housing situation, from which they directly profit.