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Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions.

Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions. These kids will never get these years back. What a disgrace. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

johnebgd 5y ago
The problem with highly infectious diseases is those who get it also infect others. The professors are likely in the age bracket that has a higher risk than the student.
- ars 5y ago
  The Professor is guaranteed to get it. A Professor comes in contact with way too many people to even have a chance of not getting it. You're just pretending that you can actually do something by making restrictions, you actually can't.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    China has been very successful at preventing the original variants from spreading. So they provide an existence proof that it is possible, at least pre-Omicron. I'd rather live with ineffective American lockdowns than effective Chinese ones, but the Chinese example falsifies your statement.
    - tomschlick 5y ago
      Yeah I wouldn't believe anything related to the virus coming from China, especially numbers that make the CCP look good. They have too much of an incentive to lie, even more so that its finally not taboo to believe that the Wuhan lab was responsible for the outbreak.
      - The_rationalist 5y ago
        Stop the cringe, China does not live outside of the World. Plenty of occidental people live in China and they would report if any member of their entourage was getting covid. Also it's proven at this point that covid came from bats.
      - bryanlarsen 5y ago
        So take your information from reports that make the CCP look bad, like the extreme measures taken when an outbreak is detected.
ChicagoDave 5y ago
Like that number isn't horrendous in and of itself, but let's not forget that many young adults that have had Covid likely gave it to someone vulnerable as well. It's not just who dies directly from Covid. It's also the spread of it to vulnerable populations. It boggles the mind that this still has to be repeated. How many 22 year olds coming back from spring break will kill one of their parents or grandparents?
- ars 5y ago
  That's what the vaccine is for. And if you're really concerned about spring break, then add all these restrictions 2 weeks before spring break.
  - ChicagoDave 5y ago
    Do you not understand “vulnerable population”? There are actually people that the vaccines won’t help. They are immunocompromised. They can only be protected by high vaccination rates and zero exposure to Covid.
    - bart_spoon 5y ago
      Yes, but those people will never stop being vulnerable. Covid is never going away, period. Anyone saying otherwise has been living in a fantasy for nearly 2 years at this point. So completely distorting society to ensure zero Covid exposure has not only proven itself to be relatively ineffective, but it would be required to be done forever. The situation will be no different in a year or 5 years than it is from now, so continuing to argue for societal shutdown is completely untenable.
    - ars 5y ago
      So your plan is to harm millions in order to protect tens? People who are immunocompromised have a tough life, but we can't shut down the world for them. COVID is here to stay. Forever. You can't shut the world down forever.
      - 5y ago
bopbeepboop 5y ago
[dead]
syki 5y ago
In my college system I’m responsible for cleaning my classroom after each use. If I forget to do this and a student gets sick then I’m personally liable. I’m not paid enough to clean classrooms and teach and I’m not taking on the liability. Thus, I haven’t taught in the classroom for the last 2 years.
- modernpink 5y ago
  That is outrageous if true. An airborne virus is best treated with ventilation (i.e. opening windows). Surface transmission almost never happens [1]. The irony of course being that having a cleaner go in and out of rooms poses much greater risk of spread. [1] COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
  - isoskeles 5y ago
    I went to the hospital two days ago. Plenty of COVID warnings were posted all over the place. One was a sign, last updated in February of 2020, that suggested you leave if you’ve been in contact with anyone who recently travelled to China, Korea, Iran, or Italy.
  - treis 5y ago
    >That is outrageous if true It's not true.
    - syki 5y ago
      Consider that some colleges asked students to sign liability waivers to go back to the classroom. I don’t have the memorandum the chancellor sent to us at the beginning of the pandemic so I can’t prove that my statement is truthful but it does appear plausible given that some colleges asked students to sign waivers. I don’t know if the rules that my system put in place at the beginning of the pandemic are still in force. They may have put that rule in place just to make sure we all went online when this mess first started. I just know I’m not going back to the classroom until most of my colleagues do too. My college is still almost entirely online. EDIT: Chancellor’s memorandum was about cleaning protocols. The union advised us on liability issues and said that we could be liable for sicknesses if we fail to follow the protocol. My union membership includes a $1 million liability coverage for the classroom. They might have brought up this as a way of saying that our classroom insurance does not cover this possibility. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/08/03/students-asked-sign-liability-waivers-return-campus https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/08/03/students-aske...
inanutshellus 5y ago
"I'm young and healthy, I should be allowed to spread a new virus to the entire planet. The health of my society is not my responsibility. What a disgrace."
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
  You’re missing two key points: 1. COVID was always going to become endemic to humans. 2. Young people are part of society — and you’re blatantly disregarding harm to them in your appeal to the “health of my society”.
  - Graffur 5y ago
    Your first point makes no sense. The logic follows that we should have let the original and more deadly variants rip through society? Young people are part of society so they are obligated to protect it.
    - ars 5y ago
      > The logic follows that we should have let the original and more deadly variants rip through society? I participate in two communities - one that completely ignores COVID (except for a couple months at the very very beginning). They don't test, they don't care if someone is positive. Lots of people are vaccinated, but lots aren't (they all had COVID, they can't think of any reason to get vaccinated since they already are immnune). And another one that is freaked out about COVID, mask wearing, vaccine or you are excluded from everything, social distancing, keep everything closed. Somehow the longterm death rate is the same in both - except for those first few months. But the mental health in the open community is far better. It's over. COVID is over. It's time to stop closing everything. Take the vaccine (or don't if that's the risk you chose to take), and stop this meaningless theater.
      - dqv 5y ago
        Anecdotes are useless. And my experience has been the opposite of yours. Nil deaths, one infection, same mental health for the cares-about-COVID community. The community that doesn’t has had 3 deaths, dozens of infections, and worsened mental health from the deaths of loved ones. So why am I supposed to give more of a shit about your anecdote than my experience again? >It's over. COVID is over. It's time to stop closing everything. Uh we know. We’re talking about what happened in the past. Everyone has been using past tense verbs.
treis 5y ago
I don't think it's Covid related. The graph in the article clearly shows a steady decline that pre-dated Covid. Covid may have accelerated it a bit, but it's not a fundamental shift.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  eye-balling from the graph: the drop in the past 2 years is as much as the drop in the 4 years before that (2015-2019) but yes, I agree education was in a sorry state prior to the pandemic as well
Bhilai 5y ago
I dont disagree with the sentiment on lost years but I think its very easy to say that in retrospect. At beginning of 2020, no one knew how severe the pandemic is going to be. We did not have a vaccine and we did not know which age groups are going to be most vulnerable.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  I think that's a fair point.
epistasis 5y ago
I'm trying to imagine some other cause of death where 3000 over a couple years is regarded as acceptable. I think covid has broken people's brains, because we have gone to war, spent trillions, and sacrificed the lives of thousands of people in the US for about that size of human loss, within recent memory.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  Covid is a one time risk. Overtime the average risk of death goes to zero. People's brains were already broken. People are bad at statistical risk. People are afraid of flying despite driving be much more dangerous. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and-gender https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-ag... https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_dea... Under the age of 24, vehicle fatalities, suicide, and homicide lead in >3k deaths each year. https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-overdoses-leading-cause-death-adults https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-overdoses-leading-cause-... Meanwhile, 18-45 79k have died from fentanyl overdoses in the past 2 years vs. ~50k covid deaths in that time frame. You don't need to imagine 3k deaths being acceptable, it's in the data for all to see.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Yeah, fentanyl is terrible! So are cars, and I spend most of my non-family, non-work time advocating for city planning that will let people who chose so to avoid cars. That does not lessen the impact of 3000 deaths among people who did not take on that risk.
    - disambiguation 5y ago
      What kind of plans do you advocate for? Are any of them on the order of magnitude of measures we've taken against covid?
      - epistasis 5y ago

johnebgd 5y ago

The problem with highly infectious diseases is those who get it also infect others. The professors are likely in the age bracket that has a higher risk than the student.

ars 5y ago
The Professor is guaranteed to get it. A Professor comes in contact with way too many people to even have a chance of not getting it. You're just pretending that you can actually do something by making restrictions, you actually can't.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  China has been very successful at preventing the original variants from spreading. So they provide an existence proof that it is possible, at least pre-Omicron. I'd rather live with ineffective American lockdowns than effective Chinese ones, but the Chinese example falsifies your statement.
  - tomschlick 5y ago
    Yeah I wouldn't believe anything related to the virus coming from China, especially numbers that make the CCP look good. They have too much of an incentive to lie, even more so that its finally not taboo to believe that the Wuhan lab was responsible for the outbreak.
    - The_rationalist 5y ago
      Stop the cringe, China does not live outside of the World. Plenty of occidental people live in China and they would report if any member of their entourage was getting covid. Also it's proven at this point that covid came from bats.
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      So take your information from reports that make the CCP look bad, like the extreme measures taken when an outbreak is detected.

ChicagoDave 5y ago

Like that number isn't horrendous in and of itself, but let's not forget that many young adults that have had Covid likely gave it to someone vulnerable as well. It's not just who dies directly from Covid. It's also the spread of it to vulnerable populations. It boggles the mind that this still has to be repeated. How many 22 year olds coming back from spring break will kill one of their parents or grandparents?

ars 5y ago
That's what the vaccine is for. And if you're really concerned about spring break, then add all these restrictions 2 weeks before spring break.
- ChicagoDave 5y ago
  Do you not understand “vulnerable population”? There are actually people that the vaccines won’t help. They are immunocompromised. They can only be protected by high vaccination rates and zero exposure to Covid.
  - bart_spoon 5y ago
    Yes, but those people will never stop being vulnerable. Covid is never going away, period. Anyone saying otherwise has been living in a fantasy for nearly 2 years at this point. So completely distorting society to ensure zero Covid exposure has not only proven itself to be relatively ineffective, but it would be required to be done forever. The situation will be no different in a year or 5 years than it is from now, so continuing to argue for societal shutdown is completely untenable.
  - ars 5y ago
    So your plan is to harm millions in order to protect tens? People who are immunocompromised have a tough life, but we can't shut down the world for them. COVID is here to stay. Forever. You can't shut the world down forever.
    - 5y ago

bopbeepboop 5y ago

[dead]

syki 5y ago

In my college system I’m responsible for cleaning my classroom after each use. If I forget to do this and a student gets sick then I’m personally liable. I’m not paid enough to clean classrooms and teach and I’m not taking on the liability. Thus, I haven’t taught in the classroom for the last 2 years.

modernpink 5y ago
That is outrageous if true. An airborne virus is best treated with ventilation (i.e. opening windows). Surface transmission almost never happens [1]. The irony of course being that having a cleaner go in and out of rooms poses much greater risk of spread. [1] COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
- isoskeles 5y ago
  I went to the hospital two days ago. Plenty of COVID warnings were posted all over the place. One was a sign, last updated in February of 2020, that suggested you leave if you’ve been in contact with anyone who recently travelled to China, Korea, Iran, or Italy.
- treis 5y ago
  >That is outrageous if true It's not true.
  - syki 5y ago
    Consider that some colleges asked students to sign liability waivers to go back to the classroom. I don’t have the memorandum the chancellor sent to us at the beginning of the pandemic so I can’t prove that my statement is truthful but it does appear plausible given that some colleges asked students to sign waivers. I don’t know if the rules that my system put in place at the beginning of the pandemic are still in force. They may have put that rule in place just to make sure we all went online when this mess first started. I just know I’m not going back to the classroom until most of my colleagues do too. My college is still almost entirely online. EDIT: Chancellor’s memorandum was about cleaning protocols. The union advised us on liability issues and said that we could be liable for sicknesses if we fail to follow the protocol. My union membership includes a $1 million liability coverage for the classroom. They might have brought up this as a way of saying that our classroom insurance does not cover this possibility. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/08/03/students-asked-sign-liability-waivers-return-campus https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/08/03/students-aske...

inanutshellus 5y ago

"I'm young and healthy, I should be allowed to spread a new virus to the entire planet. The health of my society is not my responsibility. What a disgrace."

bopbeepboop 5y ago
You’re missing two key points: 1. COVID was always going to become endemic to humans. 2. Young people are part of society — and you’re blatantly disregarding harm to them in your appeal to the “health of my society”.
- Graffur 5y ago
  Your first point makes no sense. The logic follows that we should have let the original and more deadly variants rip through society? Young people are part of society so they are obligated to protect it.
  - ars 5y ago
    > The logic follows that we should have let the original and more deadly variants rip through society? I participate in two communities - one that completely ignores COVID (except for a couple months at the very very beginning). They don't test, they don't care if someone is positive. Lots of people are vaccinated, but lots aren't (they all had COVID, they can't think of any reason to get vaccinated since they already are immnune). And another one that is freaked out about COVID, mask wearing, vaccine or you are excluded from everything, social distancing, keep everything closed. Somehow the longterm death rate is the same in both - except for those first few months. But the mental health in the open community is far better. It's over. COVID is over. It's time to stop closing everything. Take the vaccine (or don't if that's the risk you chose to take), and stop this meaningless theater.
    - dqv 5y ago
      Anecdotes are useless. And my experience has been the opposite of yours. Nil deaths, one infection, same mental health for the cares-about-COVID community. The community that doesn’t has had 3 deaths, dozens of infections, and worsened mental health from the deaths of loved ones. So why am I supposed to give more of a shit about your anecdote than my experience again? >It's over. COVID is over. It's time to stop closing everything. Uh we know. We’re talking about what happened in the past. Everyone has been using past tense verbs.

treis 5y ago

I don't think it's Covid related. The graph in the article clearly shows a steady decline that pre-dated Covid. Covid may have accelerated it a bit, but it's not a fundamental shift.

disambiguation 5y ago
eye-balling from the graph: the drop in the past 2 years is as much as the drop in the 4 years before that (2015-2019) but yes, I agree education was in a sorry state prior to the pandemic as well

Bhilai 5y ago

I dont disagree with the sentiment on lost years but I think its very easy to say that in retrospect. At beginning of 2020, no one knew how severe the pandemic is going to be. We did not have a vaccine and we did not know which age groups are going to be most vulnerable.

disambiguation 5y ago
I think that's a fair point.

epistasis 5y ago

I'm trying to imagine some other cause of death where 3000 over a couple years is regarded as acceptable. I think covid has broken people's brains, because we have gone to war, spent trillions, and sacrificed the lives of thousands of people in the US for about that size of human loss, within recent memory.

disambiguation 5y ago
Covid is a one time risk. Overtime the average risk of death goes to zero. People's brains were already broken. People are bad at statistical risk. People are afraid of flying despite driving be much more dangerous. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and-gender https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-ag... https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_dea... Under the age of 24, vehicle fatalities, suicide, and homicide lead in >3k deaths each year. https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-overdoses-leading-cause-death-adults https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-overdoses-leading-cause-... Meanwhile, 18-45 79k have died from fentanyl overdoses in the past 2 years vs. ~50k covid deaths in that time frame. You don't need to imagine 3k deaths being acceptable, it's in the data for all to see.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Yeah, fentanyl is terrible! So are cars, and I spend most of my non-family, non-work time advocating for city planning that will let people who chose so to avoid cars. That does not lessen the impact of 3000 deaths among people who did not take on that risk.
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    What kind of plans do you advocate for? Are any of them on the order of magnitude of measures we've taken against covid?
    - epistasis 5y ago