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> specially compared to the US where quite some companies will match our European amenities (talking about software engineering jobs). Debatable. In most Europ

> specially compared to the US where quite some companies will match our European amenities (talking about software engineering jobs). Debatable. In most European countries, if you lose your job you still have health cover. If you lose your job in the US you do not keep the company benefit health insurance (except as part of a severance package for a limited time). For H1-B visa holders, they must leave the country (this is relevant for anyone based in Europe who is trying to determine whether to stay in Europe or use a visa programme to relocate to the US).

wreath 5y ago
Depends where in Europe. In Germany, if you lose your job you still have to pay for health insurance, at least the first three months until your unemployment kicks in (assuming you're eligible for it, like in most cases) and I don't know if unemployment covers your health insurance. If you are married and you and your spouse were on the same statutory health insurance, then you're covered by your spouse. Which can be the case in the US depending on your spouse's coverage.
- jyounker 5y ago
  Once you are unemployed you do have to pay for your health insurance, but it's heavily subsidized, costing (as a 50 year old) around 200 a month. Compare that to 1200 per month in the USA. It's a huge difference.
  - wreath 5y ago
    It's a huge difference when you compare absolute numbers for sure. But also there is a huge difference in taxes. You could argue 1200 is not so bad when you pay 25% taxes instead of 40% for example.
    - remram 5y ago
      You don't pay income taxes when unemployed.
      - wreath 5y ago
        That's not what I meant. When you are employed in tech and pay say 25% taxes, saving 1200 for a bad day (when you are unemployed and have to pay insurance yourself) is not so bad compared to when you pay 40 taxes.
        remram 5y ago
        You've gone full circle then. Someone was pointing out that salaries are lower in Europe, someone else replied that on the other hand costs are lower (for example health insurance). To which you reply that it's fine because salary are lower.
  - _rtld_global_ro 5y ago
    Get ACA, should be a lot lower than $1200/month if AGI isn't really high (assuming unemployed), now if you want CORBA that could be a different story.
  - jandrewrogers 5y ago
    Where did you get $1200/month in the US? At least where I live, it is $400/month.
- Tainnor 5y ago
  it's impossible (i.e. illegal) in Germany to be uninsured. you may have to pay yourself depending on the situation (I had to do it once between jobs), but the amount you have to pay is not crazy, and there are no people who have no health insurance because they can't afford it. For example, if you are eligible for ALG II (aka Hartz IV, i.e. long-term unemployment benefits), your health insurance is automatically paid for.
  - wreath 5y ago
    If you're not eligible for ALG II (so I guess your first year of unemployment), do you have to pay for insurance from your unemployment benefits?
- nicbou 5y ago
  This is true, but not quite the full truth. You will fall on the minimum tariff, and both unemployment and social security cover your health insurance. IIRC, they will cover it retroactively for those 3 months, even if you quit. However that last line is from a conversation in a bar. And yes, if you earn below 450€ a month, you're generally covered by your spouse or family's health insurance with many little rules and exceptions. None of those exceptions are deal breakers though. This page (https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/german-health-insurance https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/german-health-insurance) explains more, and has a very accurate calculator that takes those edge cases into account.
bluGill 5y ago
But it isn't hard to find a job, and there are other options for health care while you are looking. I agree that it is stupid to tie health insurance to your job, but it isn't the big deal you make it out to be, so long as you have savings
- alistairSH 5y ago
  so long as you have savings That phrase is key. Most Americans don’t have savings. Even among the professional class, savings are often nowhere near high enough to pay OOP for insurance at market rate.
- fnord123 5y ago
  I'm not an expert in american insurance policies (not even a novice, tbh) but if you have an ongoing condition and then lose insurance, and then get new insurance with your easy-to-get new job then would the ongoing condition be considered a pre-existing condition and hence fall into question regarding cover?
  - ryan93 5y ago
    Not since 2009
- _hcuq 5y ago
  As a 55 yr old with 3 dependents, the insurance is $25,000 per year. That’s quite a hill to climb before I see a penny of income into my pocket.
literallycancer 5y ago
What's stopping you from choosing and paying for your own health insurance in the US?

wreath 5y ago

Depends where in Europe. In Germany, if you lose your job you still have to pay for health insurance, at least the first three months until your unemployment kicks in (assuming you're eligible for it, like in most cases) and I don't know if unemployment covers your health insurance. If you are married and you and your spouse were on the same statutory health insurance, then you're covered by your spouse. Which can be the case in the US depending on your spouse's coverage.

jyounker 5y ago
Once you are unemployed you do have to pay for your health insurance, but it's heavily subsidized, costing (as a 50 year old) around 200 a month. Compare that to 1200 per month in the USA. It's a huge difference.
- wreath 5y ago
  It's a huge difference when you compare absolute numbers for sure. But also there is a huge difference in taxes. You could argue 1200 is not so bad when you pay 25% taxes instead of 40% for example.
  - remram 5y ago
    You don't pay income taxes when unemployed.
    - wreath 5y ago
      That's not what I meant. When you are employed in tech and pay say 25% taxes, saving 1200 for a bad day (when you are unemployed and have to pay insurance yourself) is not so bad compared to when you pay 40 taxes.
      - remram 5y ago
        You've gone full circle then. Someone was pointing out that salaries are lower in Europe, someone else replied that on the other hand costs are lower (for example health insurance). To which you reply that it's fine because salary are lower.
- _rtld_global_ro 5y ago
  Get ACA, should be a lot lower than $1200/month if AGI isn't really high (assuming unemployed), now if you want CORBA that could be a different story.
- jandrewrogers 5y ago
  Where did you get $1200/month in the US? At least where I live, it is $400/month.
Tainnor 5y ago
it's impossible (i.e. illegal) in Germany to be uninsured. you may have to pay yourself depending on the situation (I had to do it once between jobs), but the amount you have to pay is not crazy, and there are no people who have no health insurance because they can't afford it. For example, if you are eligible for ALG II (aka Hartz IV, i.e. long-term unemployment benefits), your health insurance is automatically paid for.
- wreath 5y ago
  If you're not eligible for ALG II (so I guess your first year of unemployment), do you have to pay for insurance from your unemployment benefits?
nicbou 5y ago
This is true, but not quite the full truth. You will fall on the minimum tariff, and both unemployment and social security cover your health insurance. IIRC, they will cover it retroactively for those 3 months, even if you quit. However that last line is from a conversation in a bar. And yes, if you earn below 450€ a month, you're generally covered by your spouse or family's health insurance with many little rules and exceptions. None of those exceptions are deal breakers though. This page (https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/german-health-insurance https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/german-health-insurance) explains more, and has a very accurate calculator that takes those edge cases into account.

bluGill 5y ago

But it isn't hard to find a job, and there are other options for health care while you are looking. I agree that it is stupid to tie health insurance to your job, but it isn't the big deal you make it out to be, so long as you have savings

alistairSH 5y ago
so long as you have savings That phrase is key. Most Americans don’t have savings. Even among the professional class, savings are often nowhere near high enough to pay OOP for insurance at market rate.
fnord123 5y ago
I'm not an expert in american insurance policies (not even a novice, tbh) but if you have an ongoing condition and then lose insurance, and then get new insurance with your easy-to-get new job then would the ongoing condition be considered a pre-existing condition and hence fall into question regarding cover?
- ryan93 5y ago
  Not since 2009
_hcuq 5y ago
As a 55 yr old with 3 dependents, the insurance is $25,000 per year. That’s quite a hill to climb before I see a penny of income into my pocket.

literallycancer 5y ago

What's stopping you from choosing and paying for your own health insurance in the US?