4 ms·

I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whoever else aren't

I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whoever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire. (I hope I'm wrong, because I do feel there needs to be a moral reckoning about how we technologists—whatever the specific discipline—are contributing to the world, and whether it's truly for the better.)

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
I think amazon is absolutely facing pressure from word getting out about working conditions. They raised their pay band for a middle level engineer 100k.
- reikonomusha 5y ago
  That's a great point and corroborates other stories I've heard about increasing mid-level pay. It does continue to support the thesis that is (in simplified form) "everybody has a number".
- oblio 5y ago
  When?
  - argc 5y ago
    A few months ago
- mupuff1234 5y ago
  You'd think it would be cheaper for them to just improve working conditions.
  - afarrell 5y ago
    So much of "working conditions" are habits and culture. Changing those is a lot harder than installing new lighting or safety guards. Worth it? yes, but there is lag time.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      It’d also likely require change from the top down - which is never happening. They’d rather pay people more than change their own behavior.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    But they don't want to. The working conditions that everyone rags on about there are a feature for them, not a bug.
square_usual 5y ago
I don't know about FB, but I think the fact that Amazon's sourcers are shotgun shelling every warm body with a modicum of engineering experience says something about how difficult their hiring is.
bradlys 5y ago
> I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whomever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire Trust me - among people who can get those jobs - they are getting less views. Of the people I know in SV - and I know a few - all have very unfavorable views of Amazon and working there. People only take it as a stepping stone or last resort. The top experienced candidates who are able to get offers from most companies are not going to Amazon these days. I haven't seen any of the people I know who are good engineers go to Amazon. And - I mean - I am with them. I am at a place that is known to work their engineers to death as well and I'm getting too much shit thrown down at me. But I'm here because I needed this as a stepping stone for rep before I can find a better place that'll let me coast as a staff eng instead of churning through one hellish startup one after another.
- pm90 5y ago
  This might be accurate but it’s…bleak? I genuinely hope you do get what you’re looking for.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  Curious where youre at? Hope it works out for you, and it sounds like you already know this, but it all comes down to leetcode. So dont kill yourself learning "programming", companies only want leetcode medium perfection. Slack at the job, do not slack on the algos
intothemild 5y ago
Anecdotally, I get offers to come interview for roles in different countries for Amazon, Facebook etc, like in sure most of us do. I politely say no every time not giving any reason other than I don't want to relocate for the job, but the reality is I don't want to either work at that company due to the horrible things they are doing or the horrible reputation of the working environment. I've asked other engineers if they have similar requests and they do and the reject for the same reasons I do.
- hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
  Same here. I don't even bother reading the Amazon or Facebook recruiting emails anymore. It's not literally true that "you couldn't pay me enough to work there" (you totally could) -- but they're not offering nearly enough to overcome my aversion.
__float 5y ago
FB definitely has been struggling, see https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recruiting-crisis https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr... with leaked internal docs describing it.

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago

I think amazon is absolutely facing pressure from word getting out about working conditions. They raised their pay band for a middle level engineer 100k.

reikonomusha 5y ago
That's a great point and corroborates other stories I've heard about increasing mid-level pay. It does continue to support the thesis that is (in simplified form) "everybody has a number".
oblio 5y ago
When?
- argc 5y ago
  A few months ago
mupuff1234 5y ago
You'd think it would be cheaper for them to just improve working conditions.
- afarrell 5y ago
  So much of "working conditions" are habits and culture. Changing those is a lot harder than installing new lighting or safety guards. Worth it? yes, but there is lag time.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    It’d also likely require change from the top down - which is never happening. They’d rather pay people more than change their own behavior.
- vanusa 5y ago
  But they don't want to. The working conditions that everyone rags on about there are a feature for them, not a bug.

square_usual 5y ago

I don't know about FB, but I think the fact that Amazon's sourcers are shotgun shelling every warm body with a modicum of engineering experience says something about how difficult their hiring is.

bradlys 5y ago

> I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whomever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire Trust me - among people who can get those jobs - they are getting less views. Of the people I know in SV - and I know a few - all have very unfavorable views of Amazon and working there. People only take it as a stepping stone or last resort. The top experienced candidates who are able to get offers from most companies are not going to Amazon these days. I haven't seen any of the people I know who are good engineers go to Amazon. And - I mean - I am with them. I am at a place that is known to work their engineers to death as well and I'm getting too much shit thrown down at me. But I'm here because I needed this as a stepping stone for rep before I can find a better place that'll let me coast as a staff eng instead of churning through one hellish startup one after another.

pm90 5y ago
This might be accurate but it’s…bleak? I genuinely hope you do get what you’re looking for.
ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
Curious where youre at? Hope it works out for you, and it sounds like you already know this, but it all comes down to leetcode. So dont kill yourself learning "programming", companies only want leetcode medium perfection. Slack at the job, do not slack on the algos

intothemild 5y ago

Anecdotally, I get offers to come interview for roles in different countries for Amazon, Facebook etc, like in sure most of us do. I politely say no every time not giving any reason other than I don't want to relocate for the job, but the reality is I don't want to either work at that company due to the horrible things they are doing or the horrible reputation of the working environment. I've asked other engineers if they have similar requests and they do and the reject for the same reasons I do.

hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
Same here. I don't even bother reading the Amazon or Facebook recruiting emails anymore. It's not literally true that "you couldn't pay me enough to work there" (you totally could) -- but they're not offering nearly enough to overcome my aversion.

__float 5y ago

FB definitely has been struggling, see https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recruiting-crisis https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr... with leaked internal docs describing it.