4 ms·

It's an under-discussed topic that this apparent utopia isn't available to everyone. Race, gender presentation, academic background, country of residence or ori

It's an under-discussed topic that this apparent utopia isn't available to everyone. Race, gender presentation, academic background, country of residence or origin, Twitter blue-check, etc. all seem to be correlated (no numbers; purely anecdotal) to those who enjoy (or don't) this utopia. Being masterfully technical, social, or political have a lot to do with it too, it seems.

giantg2 5y ago
I apparently check the right boxes. I just suck at life.
- throwawaybbqed 5y ago
  Hey random Internet stranger. Don't feel terrible. I have a CS PhD, work in AI, have a fancy job title and decent resume ..yet, I am not making anywhere close to these crazy numbers. I painted myself into a bad corner and am somehow stuck. I work crazy hours to keep myself up to date so I can get myself unstuck. I think most engineers are not making 300K-500K .. it is a bit like social media .. you just hear about the winners and not the losers. Also, the stock market was up like crazy in the last 2 years .. I think this accounts for some of the insane numbers we are seeing, people retiring, etc. The biggest mistake I made is my job doesn't give me shares/RSUs, etc. It was somewhat obvious that this was a problem but it wasn't terrible until most major tech companies did a x3 in 1 year. This was a 1 time lottery I missed (and I suspect many others did too). Things could have gone the other way too (I graduated from my PhD in 2008 and recall how terrible those days were).
  - bcrosby95 5y ago
    Lottery tickets don't always pay off either. I make... nowhere near 300k-500k. But I got decently lucky with a startup earlier in my career. And a bit later I got some hefty bonuses at another company. But that hasn't really happened the last, say, 8 years. If I kept hitting that luck, I could have been around 500k/year average total comp. But I didn't and I'm not in the 300k+ club.
- swader999 5y ago
  You are just one conversation away from changing it. Either with your current manager or your next one. Have no fear!
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    this. AI is such a hot market, with a phd you may double your comp in one move, or, absolutely get your current employer to give a significant raise every 6 months to keep you.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- freyr 5y ago
  You’re being too hard on yourself. You suck at interviewing, you suck at applying to high-paying jobs, or you don’t live near high-paying jobs.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I got about a 4.5% effective pay cut this year. I'm 10 years in with an MS and I'm only a midlevel making under $100k. I don't think those excuses apply.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - freyr 5y ago
      None of that has any bearing on what I said. If anything, having an MS and mid-level experience only make it easier for you than most. But you’ve been complaining about your job for months and you’re still there. And you talk about all other jobs like they’re beneath you.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        "And you talk about all other jobs like they’re beneath you." Source? I haven't said any jobs are beneath me. "only make it easier for you" Basically what I'm saying - I don't suck at interviewing etc. There aren't many high paying jobs in my area. I do just generally suck.
        freyr 5y ago
        Alright, you convinced me.
user123456780 5y ago
> Being masterfully either technically, socially, or politically have a lot to do with it too, it seems. I don't think you need to be a master to get more money. What I have noticed as a hiring manager/tech lead is candidates/team members fall into either asking for more money or not. I have guys on my team who if they asked for money I could easily add 20 - 50k to their salary. But they don't, they also don't shop themselves about. They're low risk of jumping ship and if they do, I can offer them a huge amount to stay or with the savings I have made over the years I can replace them at market rates, suffer the disruption of introducing a new team member and still be ahead. I luckily learnt early on the best thing to do for your career is just ask for more money. Every 6 months I ask for a pay rise. I don't always get it and if I don't I ask 'what do I need to do get more money'. Your boss should be able to tell you what you need to do to justify another 10 - 20k to your salary
- greyface- 5y ago
  > I have guys on my team who if they asked for money I could easily add 20 - 50k to their salary. But they don't Give them a raise, proactively.
- reikonomusha 5y ago
  I think maneuvering a pay discussion and "shopping yourself around" qualify to me as being somewhat masterful both socially and politically. Especially if you're just plain average at your job and have no successes of note. I do agree more people could get more money by asking, but what turns many off to doing that is what to do in the face of rejection.
- jandrewrogers 5y ago
  Allow me to give a slightly different perspective. When engineers are consistently outperforming their wage, I immediately recognize that with an unsolicited pay increase to match their performance. This has always been met with appreciation, as it demonstrates both that outperformance is actively recognized and rewarded, and secondarily that management is looking out for the benefit of the employees. This has positive cultural impact. This is more or less difficult depending on the company. In a few cases, I had to go to war with HR to get a deserving employee a raise who deserved it but hadn't asked for it. Other companies have processes that are highly amenable to it. In many cases, if employees have to ask for more money when they've earned it then it is a management failure.

giantg2 5y ago

I apparently check the right boxes. I just suck at life.

throwawaybbqed 5y ago
Hey random Internet stranger. Don't feel terrible. I have a CS PhD, work in AI, have a fancy job title and decent resume ..yet, I am not making anywhere close to these crazy numbers. I painted myself into a bad corner and am somehow stuck. I work crazy hours to keep myself up to date so I can get myself unstuck. I think most engineers are not making 300K-500K .. it is a bit like social media .. you just hear about the winners and not the losers. Also, the stock market was up like crazy in the last 2 years .. I think this accounts for some of the insane numbers we are seeing, people retiring, etc. The biggest mistake I made is my job doesn't give me shares/RSUs, etc. It was somewhat obvious that this was a problem but it wasn't terrible until most major tech companies did a x3 in 1 year. This was a 1 time lottery I missed (and I suspect many others did too). Things could have gone the other way too (I graduated from my PhD in 2008 and recall how terrible those days were).
- bcrosby95 5y ago
  Lottery tickets don't always pay off either. I make... nowhere near 300k-500k. But I got decently lucky with a startup earlier in my career. And a bit later I got some hefty bonuses at another company. But that hasn't really happened the last, say, 8 years. If I kept hitting that luck, I could have been around 500k/year average total comp. But I didn't and I'm not in the 300k+ club.
swader999 5y ago
You are just one conversation away from changing it. Either with your current manager or your next one. Have no fear!
- hirako2000 5y ago
  this. AI is such a hot market, with a phd you may double your comp in one move, or, absolutely get your current employer to give a significant raise every 6 months to keep you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
freyr 5y ago
You’re being too hard on yourself. You suck at interviewing, you suck at applying to high-paying jobs, or you don’t live near high-paying jobs.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I got about a 4.5% effective pay cut this year. I'm 10 years in with an MS and I'm only a midlevel making under $100k. I don't think those excuses apply.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - freyr 5y ago
    None of that has any bearing on what I said. If anything, having an MS and mid-level experience only make it easier for you than most. But you’ve been complaining about your job for months and you’re still there. And you talk about all other jobs like they’re beneath you.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      "And you talk about all other jobs like they’re beneath you." Source? I haven't said any jobs are beneath me. "only make it easier for you" Basically what I'm saying - I don't suck at interviewing etc. There aren't many high paying jobs in my area. I do just generally suck.
      - freyr 5y ago
        Alright, you convinced me.

user123456780 5y ago

> Being masterfully either technically, socially, or politically have a lot to do with it too, it seems. I don't think you need to be a master to get more money. What I have noticed as a hiring manager/tech lead is candidates/team members fall into either asking for more money or not. I have guys on my team who if they asked for money I could easily add 20 - 50k to their salary. But they don't, they also don't shop themselves about. They're low risk of jumping ship and if they do, I can offer them a huge amount to stay or with the savings I have made over the years I can replace them at market rates, suffer the disruption of introducing a new team member and still be ahead. I luckily learnt early on the best thing to do for your career is just ask for more money. Every 6 months I ask for a pay rise. I don't always get it and if I don't I ask 'what do I need to do get more money'. Your boss should be able to tell you what you need to do to justify another 10 - 20k to your salary

greyface- 5y ago
> I have guys on my team who if they asked for money I could easily add 20 - 50k to their salary. But they don't Give them a raise, proactively.
reikonomusha 5y ago
I think maneuvering a pay discussion and "shopping yourself around" qualify to me as being somewhat masterful both socially and politically. Especially if you're just plain average at your job and have no successes of note. I do agree more people could get more money by asking, but what turns many off to doing that is what to do in the face of rejection.
jandrewrogers 5y ago
Allow me to give a slightly different perspective. When engineers are consistently outperforming their wage, I immediately recognize that with an unsolicited pay increase to match their performance. This has always been met with appreciation, as it demonstrates both that outperformance is actively recognized and rewarded, and secondarily that management is looking out for the benefit of the employees. This has positive cultural impact. This is more or less difficult depending on the company. In a few cases, I had to go to war with HR to get a deserving employee a raise who deserved it but hadn't asked for it. Other companies have processes that are highly amenable to it. In many cases, if employees have to ask for more money when they've earned it then it is a management failure.