3 ms·

its weirdly black and white to think a language is "bad", particularly one in heavy use

stouset 5y ago
I think C is a bad language. Necessary at the time? Sure. Is everything about it bad? Of course not. But by modern standards it’s bad, and the sooner we can migrate code away from it and onto languages with fewer footguns the better. It’s weirdly black and white to assume that just because someone thinks a language is “bad”, that opinion doesn’t have nuance. Full disclosure, I also think go is a bad language ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  I don’t understand, you think ideally there would be 0 code written in go? You don’t see anything interesting or appealing about it? Also, calling a language bad is black and white, observing that is not black and white.
  - stouset 5y ago
    I just tried to make the point that thinking a language is “bad” doesn’t mean that there isn’t nuance behind that opinion, and so you immediately jump to the conclusion that I believe such a language has zero redeemable qualities and should be stricken from the Earth? Hell, I enjoy writing C but I still think it’s a bad language.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      If you want me to think you have a nuanced opinion, express a nuanced opinion. The opinion you expressed is unsubstantiated, and instead of substantiating it, you’re attacking me. Poor showing mate.
      - stouset 5y ago
        The grandparent was disclaiming his bias regarding his own personal dislike of golang. A full-blown point-by-point critique would have been unnecessary and inappropriate in that context. Nothing I’ve replied here has been an “attack” on you. I simply tried—gently at first—to suggest that “x is bad” should not be equated with “x is irredeemable” which is not exactly a charitable or reasonable interpretation in the context in which that statement was originally written. Further I directly expressed a more nuanced opinion as an example in my and you still chose to discard that nuance and interpret the opinion as black and white. I think you’ll find that on a scale of positivity from -1.0 to +1.0, most people perceive “bad” as somewhere along the lines of “< 0.0” and not “= -1.0”.
        philosopher1234 5y ago
        Why do you think go is bad?
        stouset 5y ago
        Why does it matter so much to you that I do? I have zero interest in rehashing an argument that’s been made here hundreds if not thousands of times already, and by others far more eloquent and convincing than myself no less. Feel free to read my post history. Or simply search for virtually any golang-related post on this site. Whatever arguments you find, I probably agree with at least 80% of them.
        philosopher1234 5y ago
        Ok, in summary, go is bad, there’s a nuanced opinion behind it, and you won’t tell me what it is. Also, I’m bad for assuming that this is a black and white point. Have a nice day.
        stouset 5y ago
        I am genuinely, honestly confused as to how you cannot see how all these points are congruent with one another. I believe go is a bad language. I have nuanced, lengthy, and detailed opinions behind that belief which stem from 24 years of software engineering, 4 years of professional experience specifically with golang, and professional experience writing, deploying, and maintaining production software using C, C++, Rust, Java, Ruby, Perl, and JavaScript. And I have zero interest in rehashing the past twelve years' worth of arguments against golang with someone who's repeatedly signaled a frustrating level of obstinance. Whatever wild conclusions you choose to jump to from there are your own doing, not mine.
staticassertion 5y ago
I don't see anything interesting or appealing about Go at all. I've read and written Go, I've watched Pike's talks on it, and I follow its development. I could talk a lot about why I think it's a bad language, it would be hard to summarize it since I'd want to cite Pike's talks on "simplicity", articles on Go's GC implementation, discuss error handling, what I think makes a language "good", etc.

I think C is a bad language. Necessary at the time? Sure. Is everything about it bad? Of course not. But by modern standards it’s bad, and the sooner we can migrate code away from it and onto languages with fewer footguns the better. It’s weirdly black and white to assume that just because someone thinks a language is “bad”, that opinion doesn’t have nuance. Full disclosure, I also think go is a bad language ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

philosopher1234 5y ago
I don’t understand, you think ideally there would be 0 code written in go? You don’t see anything interesting or appealing about it? Also, calling a language bad is black and white, observing that is not black and white.
- stouset 5y ago
  I just tried to make the point that thinking a language is “bad” doesn’t mean that there isn’t nuance behind that opinion, and so you immediately jump to the conclusion that I believe such a language has zero redeemable qualities and should be stricken from the Earth? Hell, I enjoy writing C but I still think it’s a bad language.
  - philosopher1234 5y ago
    If you want me to think you have a nuanced opinion, express a nuanced opinion. The opinion you expressed is unsubstantiated, and instead of substantiating it, you’re attacking me. Poor showing mate.
    - stouset 5y ago
      The grandparent was disclaiming his bias regarding his own personal dislike of golang. A full-blown point-by-point critique would have been unnecessary and inappropriate in that context. Nothing I’ve replied here has been an “attack” on you. I simply tried—gently at first—to suggest that “x is bad” should not be equated with “x is irredeemable” which is not exactly a charitable or reasonable interpretation in the context in which that statement was originally written. Further I directly expressed a more nuanced opinion as an example in my and you still chose to discard that nuance and interpret the opinion as black and white. I think you’ll find that on a scale of positivity from -1.0 to +1.0, most people perceive “bad” as somewhere along the lines of “< 0.0” and not “= -1.0”.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        Why do you think go is bad?
        stouset 5y ago
        Why does it matter so much to you that I do? I have zero interest in rehashing an argument that’s been made here hundreds if not thousands of times already, and by others far more eloquent and convincing than myself no less. Feel free to read my post history. Or simply search for virtually any golang-related post on this site. Whatever arguments you find, I probably agree with at least 80% of them.
        philosopher1234 5y ago
        Ok, in summary, go is bad, there’s a nuanced opinion behind it, and you won’t tell me what it is. Also, I’m bad for assuming that this is a black and white point. Have a nice day.
        stouset 5y ago
        I am genuinely, honestly confused as to how you cannot see how all these points are congruent with one another. I believe go is a bad language. I have nuanced, lengthy, and detailed opinions behind that belief which stem from 24 years of software engineering, 4 years of professional experience specifically with golang, and professional experience writing, deploying, and maintaining production software using C, C++, Rust, Java, Ruby, Perl, and JavaScript. And I have zero interest in rehashing the past twelve years' worth of arguments against golang with someone who's repeatedly signaled a frustrating level of obstinance. Whatever wild conclusions you choose to jump to from there are your own doing, not mine.

staticassertion 5y ago

I don't see anything interesting or appealing about Go at all. I've read and written Go, I've watched Pike's talks on it, and I follow its development. I could talk a lot about why I think it's a bad language, it would be hard to summarize it since I'd want to cite Pike's talks on "simplicity", articles on Go's GC implementation, discuss error handling, what I think makes a language "good", etc.