3 ms·

The 'open borders' position you describe would definitely be a consistent one, but it's not compatible with most of the HN arguments against tech immigrants. Mo

by nickff 5y ago

The 'open borders' position you describe would definitely be a consistent one, but it's not compatible with most of the HN arguments against tech immigrants. Most HN anti-H1B posts talk about how they depress wages, and it seems likely that a significant increase in software developer immigrants would depress wages even more than the H1B status quo.

curious_cat_163 5y ago
The alternative to H1-B is not open borders… The alternative is a sane program that is detached from your employer’s whims and provides you some stability and control. As of this writing, that program in the US is called a green card. But don’t get me started on how hard that is get.
- syshum 5y ago
  >>not open borders… I want to be clear no where did I say anything about "open borders", I said "more open immigration" I do believe in some controls on immigration, security controls as an example. However I also believe it should be vastly easier than it is today, order of magnitude more open than it is today.
arcticbull 5y ago
Of course I agree with my peer comment, that the alternative to an H-1B isn't open borders. There are a number of other countries with much more reasonable immigration programs - Canada and Australia for instance - which prioritize immigration of individuals that would provide the most value for the labor market by assigning skills and attributes a point value. It's important to separate out the quantity of immigration, what they do/where they go, and how they're restricted in the process. With that in mind, consider also that 'and according to a 2018 study by the National Foundation for American Policy, immigrants founded or cofounded 55% of the United States' billion-dollar companies.' [1] It's not a zero-sum game, and stapling would-be founders to companies they would rather not work at for decades (H-1B for Indian born folks) hoping to get the freedom to found the next unicorn is quite a waste of time, talent and their risk-on years. As an aside, it's interesting that folks want high wages, high disposable income, low inequality, low prices and low inflation all at the same time. I strongly suspect that these are fundamentally incompatible goals. Feels like, at most, a pick-two kind of thing. [1] https://hbr.org/2021/08/research-why-immigrants-are-more-likely-to-become-entrepreneurs https://hbr.org/2021/08/research-why-immigrants-are-more-lik...

by nickff 5y ago

curious_cat_163 5y ago

The alternative to H1-B is not open borders… The alternative is a sane program that is detached from your employer’s whims and provides you some stability and control. As of this writing, that program in the US is called a green card. But don’t get me started on how hard that is get.

syshum 5y ago
>>not open borders… I want to be clear no where did I say anything about "open borders", I said "more open immigration" I do believe in some controls on immigration, security controls as an example. However I also believe it should be vastly easier than it is today, order of magnitude more open than it is today.

arcticbull 5y ago

Of course I agree with my peer comment, that the alternative to an H-1B isn't open borders. There are a number of other countries with much more reasonable immigration programs - Canada and Australia for instance - which prioritize immigration of individuals that would provide the most value for the labor market by assigning skills and attributes a point value. It's important to separate out the quantity of immigration, what they do/where they go, and how they're restricted in the process. With that in mind, consider also that 'and according to a 2018 study by the National Foundation for American Policy, immigrants founded or cofounded 55% of the United States' billion-dollar companies.' [1] It's not a zero-sum game, and stapling would-be founders to companies they would rather not work at for decades (H-1B for Indian born folks) hoping to get the freedom to found the next unicorn is quite a waste of time, talent and their risk-on years. As an aside, it's interesting that folks want high wages, high disposable income, low inequality, low prices and low inflation all at the same time. I strongly suspect that these are fundamentally incompatible goals. Feels like, at most, a pick-two kind of thing. [1] https://hbr.org/2021/08/research-why-immigrants-are-more-likely-to-become-entrepreneurs https://hbr.org/2021/08/research-why-immigrants-are-more-lik...