5 ms·

Many don't know this, but monopoly is not illegal in the US. Misusing monopoly power is.

by nabla9 5y ago

r00fus 5y ago
Please explain to me how Apple is a monopoly.
- Bud 5y ago
- timmg 5y ago
  AppStore is the only way to sell/put apps on an iPhones.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    iPhones aren't a "market". If that were the case, then Amazon would have a monopoly on Amazon ad placements, and Microsoft would have a monopoly on Excel features. In terms of overall downloads, Google Play Store probably exceeds what Apple's store processes.
    - timmg 5y ago
      > iPhones aren't a "market" Interestingly, lawyers/regulators can define a "market" any way they want. The courts can decide. But, while iPhones are part of the "phone market", "iOS Apps" are their own unique market. Probably only a matter of time before regulators think of it that way.
- marricks 5y ago
  It definitely seems like a vertical monopoly, which people seem to forget exists.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Vertical integration is not illegal if it's built internally, as opposed to from mergers [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-are-legal-barriers-vertical-integration.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-are-leg...
- deadmutex 5y ago
  Not OP, but maybe they were alluding to the fact that App Store is the only store a user can use on an iOS device.
- nl 5y ago
  https://academic.oup.com/jcle/article-abstract/17/3/503/6210046?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://academic.oup.com/jcle/article-abstract/17/3/503/6210...
- YetAnotherNick 5y ago
  They are not a monopoly from user's perspective, but for iPhone apps they are monopoly as the only way to reach iPhone users is by their approval.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Depends if you consider the ~$80 billion / year gross flowing through the app store for iOS apps a market or not.
- DrBenCarson 5y ago
  In fairness, they're a monopoly in a market they invented--the iOS "ecosystem." This includes: * the app store * subscription management * payments * any sort of digital media (music, movies, tv shows) * browser engines...there literally is no way to release a different browser on iOS, even iOS "Firefox" and "Chrome" have to use Apple's WebKit binary
- nabla9 5y ago
  I assume that you are thinking of a pure monopoly - a single supplier. When we are talking about monopolies in this context, we mean monopoly power, monopsony etc. For example, when a firm’s ability to charge a price higher than its marginal cost with very little change in demand of their product, it has monopoly power. When deciding if a company is a monopoly, the first thing to do is 'market definition' - defining the relevant market. Is the whole mobile phone market? Can companies realistically compete if they produce only Android apps? It is in any way practical to assume that people carry two phones? Obliviously not.
righttoolforjob 5y ago
Seems pretty obvious to me at least. I doubt your claim that not many would know this. Violence isn't illegal, but misusing violence is. Using the toilet isn't against the rules, but misusing it is.
DrBenCarson 5y ago
Guns are not illegal but misusing them is
- spiderice 5y ago
  Um.. yes? What’s your point?
cblconfederate 5y ago
It's not a monopoly, it's a vertically integrated business that is using its cash and marketing to lure in and lock in more developers, who in turn end up being working as unpaid labor for them, increasing the value of their app store, and the virtuous cycle continues. Noone else had pulled that before, apple could do it because phones peaked usability-wise and ended up becoming a fashion item. As long as developers keep being on apple's train, she calls the shots. There is no way to win this game, only to bail.

Many don't know this, but monopoly is not illegal in the US. Misusing monopoly power is.

by nabla9 5y ago

Many don't know this, but monopoly is not illegal in the US. Misusing monopoly power is.

r00fus 5y ago

Please explain to me how Apple is a monopoly.

Bud 5y ago
timmg 5y ago
AppStore is the only way to sell/put apps on an iPhones.
- r00fus 5y ago
  iPhones aren't a "market". If that were the case, then Amazon would have a monopoly on Amazon ad placements, and Microsoft would have a monopoly on Excel features. In terms of overall downloads, Google Play Store probably exceeds what Apple's store processes.
  - timmg 5y ago
    > iPhones aren't a "market" Interestingly, lawyers/regulators can define a "market" any way they want. The courts can decide. But, while iPhones are part of the "phone market", "iOS Apps" are their own unique market. Probably only a matter of time before regulators think of it that way.
marricks 5y ago
It definitely seems like a vertical monopoly, which people seem to forget exists.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Vertical integration is not illegal if it's built internally, as opposed to from mergers [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-are-legal-barriers-vertical-integration.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-are-leg...
deadmutex 5y ago
Not OP, but maybe they were alluding to the fact that App Store is the only store a user can use on an iOS device.
nl 5y ago
https://academic.oup.com/jcle/article-abstract/17/3/503/6210046?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://academic.oup.com/jcle/article-abstract/17/3/503/6210...
YetAnotherNick 5y ago
They are not a monopoly from user's perspective, but for iPhone apps they are monopoly as the only way to reach iPhone users is by their approval.
tyingq 5y ago
Depends if you consider the ~$80 billion / year gross flowing through the app store for iOS apps a market or not.
DrBenCarson 5y ago
In fairness, they're a monopoly in a market they invented--the iOS "ecosystem." This includes: * the app store * subscription management * payments * any sort of digital media (music, movies, tv shows) * browser engines...there literally is no way to release a different browser on iOS, even iOS "Firefox" and "Chrome" have to use Apple's WebKit binary
nabla9 5y ago
I assume that you are thinking of a pure monopoly - a single supplier. When we are talking about monopolies in this context, we mean monopoly power, monopsony etc. For example, when a firm’s ability to charge a price higher than its marginal cost with very little change in demand of their product, it has monopoly power. When deciding if a company is a monopoly, the first thing to do is 'market definition' - defining the relevant market. Is the whole mobile phone market? Can companies realistically compete if they produce only Android apps? It is in any way practical to assume that people carry two phones? Obliviously not.

righttoolforjob 5y ago

Seems pretty obvious to me at least. I doubt your claim that not many would know this. Violence isn't illegal, but misusing violence is. Using the toilet isn't against the rules, but misusing it is.

DrBenCarson 5y ago

Guns are not illegal but misusing them is

spiderice 5y ago
Um.. yes? What’s your point?

cblconfederate 5y ago

It's not a monopoly, it's a vertically integrated business that is using its cash and marketing to lure in and lock in more developers, who in turn end up being working as unpaid labor for them, increasing the value of their app store, and the virtuous cycle continues. Noone else had pulled that before, apple could do it because phones peaked usability-wise and ended up becoming a fashion item. As long as developers keep being on apple's train, she calls the shots. There is no way to win this game, only to bail.