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It’s possible (and IMO enjoyable) to write UIKit apps with ComposableArchitecture, a purely value-typed approach. I’ve also mostly used MVVM with UIKit since 20

• ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  Isn't TCA a dependency framework? I haven't found much joy in MVVM. I haven't found that it provides enough benefits to spend the time switching over. I am looking forward to SwiftUI. I really hope that the documentation improves, though.
  • manmal 5y ago
    TCA is a Redux/Elm-style data and state management lib that aspires to handle an app’s complete business logic, preventing devs from mixing the logic into the UI layer via SwiftUI’s @State and @StateObject. And contrary to Redux, it’s completely type safe and aware of deep component nesting (sub reducer states and actions are “pulled back” into their parent reducer pendants), so it allows truly composable components. If you haven’t checked out PointFree’s content (authors of TCA among many other things), it’s one of the best resources on Swift and algorithms for sure.
  • jamil7 5y ago
    > Isn't TCA a dependency framework? It is but it's quite straightforward to build your own simpler version using only Combine - that's what we're doing at the moment and it tends to work very well, interacting with Core Data has been kind of clunky though. > I am looking forward to SwiftUI. I really hope that the documentation improves, though. I've been on a project using it for the last 8 months both for macOS and iOS, I would honestly not rush into using it anytime soon. It's improved significantly since release, especially if you can target the newest iOS but requiring that is a hard-sell for most. On the Mac it's a different story and is much more neglected, macOS versions also tend to have far longer tails than iOS so it's a non-starter to try and sell a Monterey-only Mac app. Edit: rereading my comment it sounds like I'm really down on SwiftUI - which I'm not, I think it's great when it works but there's a lot of rough edges at the moment and also quite a lot of hype.
    • manmal 5y ago
      If you are using TCA only for dependency management, I’d suggest to reconsider and put all business logic in it. In my experience, most serious efforts of wrangling SwiftUI into a complex app wind up with a solution that’s similar to TCA.
      • jamil7 5y ago
        Ah! We're putting all our business logic in it, I guess I misunderstood what OP was asking and assumed they meant something else, that's why I mentioned we built our own version of it internally.
        • ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
          Nah. I meant that it is a library, that needs to be included as a dependency. That's a nonstarter, for me. I'm pretty picky about dependencies. If I use external ones, I like them to be something that can be encapsulated/injected, as opposed to being totally interwoven. But I'm not trying to make money, I just want to write really good apps.
          • manmal 5y ago
            I share your sentiment, and try to avoid dependencies like the pest. But, I wouldn't write my own crypto library, and TCA falls into a similar category - it's a really good solution for a hard problem. Those guys invest a big part of their time into just those few hundred lines of code. There's word that even Apple uses their stuff internally.
            • ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
              I understand, but I have been burned -badly- by relying on critical path dependencies that failed to stay up to date. Even if only by a week or two, it can be enough to wreak havoc (but my experience is that they are often many months behind). Like I said, though. I am not competing with anyone, or trying to make money. I write software for free, for those that can’t afford it. I pursue the vocation as a craft, and deliver Quality that would be totally unacceptable in a commercial endeavor (by which, I mean, high quality. Most commercial efforts go for “good enough” quality). Most folks here would not find working the way I do, to be very satisfactory.
  • ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    Thanks, both of you, for the explanations.