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> these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the

> these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the lens of feudalism. Criminal gangs are not sociopathic comic book villains interested in violence for the fun of it, they are more like landlords, and are in it for money, security, and a sense of community. Medieval kings, the Italian/American/Japanese mafias, South/Central American drug cartels, and Middle Eastern/African "warlords" are all cut from the same cloth.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago
That is an insane perspective. The favelas are a site of extreme exploitation, no matter how you try to rationalize it. This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I don't think they meant it was not exploitative when they compared it to Feudalism, hopefully everyone agrees that feudalism is extremely exploitative. I agree however that what was done to Lula is so bad it's got to be one of the worst affronts to democracy anywhere. It's a shame our media give it so little attention.
- thescriptkiddie 5y ago
  I don't think I disagree with you at all. I do not mean to downplay the harm done by organized crime, just to view the motivations of criminals from a materialist perspective. We can only pray that the CIA doesn't do to Lula what they did to Allende.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    Allende existed in a different time and place. He was in contempt of Chile's Congress due to alleged violations of Chile's Constitution, was supported by Marxist paramilitaries being supported by the USSR, and had praised the Communist revolution in Cuba and the dictator that it had brought to power.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  There is absolutely no evidence for any of this global "neoliberal" conspiracy theory. The Western states have been embracing social democracy, predicated on forced income redistribution - the very opposite of "neoliberalism" - at an unprecedented rate: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-longrun https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long... These ideological narratives that claim that political parties which advocate for more government power, are the underdog, going up against powerful forces who prefer free markets, looks like nothing more than propaganda to entrench and expand the power of the state and its functionaries.
  - cloudfifty 5y ago
    > The Western states have been embracing social democracy No, they haven't. Stop peddling this obvious bullshit based on a single figure stretched all the way to the moon. Social spending != social democracy. Social spending != welfare state. As I've asked for previously, and what you always - unsurprisingly - fail to provide: please present a single reputable, non-free-market think-tank, source that agrees that the "Western states" have been embracing social democracy the last few decades.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      High levels of social spending is indeed a hallmark of social democracy. The creation of major new social welfare programs, like Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and TANF, since 1960, corresponds with a massive increase in the share of economic output expropriated by the state for the purpose of expending it on social programs. Claiming Western states did not experience a transition to a more social democratic economic model, amidst the creation of major social welfare programs, and a massive increase in social welfare spending, is insane gaslighting. >>a single figure What an incredibly disingenuous way to characterize the share of GDP spent on government social welfare programs. This is an all-encompassing figure that encapsulates every major type of social democratic spending. Claiming that me using this extremely revealing macro-economic statistic, as evidence of the rise of social democracy, as: "peddling this obvious bullshit based on a single figure stretched all the way to the moon" is a desperate attempt to gaslight the public to hide reality from it. >>non-free-market think-tank Any think tank worth its salt is pro-free-market. Non-free-market think tanks are ideologically-motivated crank organizations, and usually on the payroll of the direct beneficiaries of social democracy - public sector unions. Whether social democracy ideologues/apologists will admit that Western states experienced a massive transition to a more social democratic economic model over the last 60 years, doesn't change what the evidence, and any remotely sane analysis of it, shows.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

That is an insane perspective. The favelas are a site of extreme exploitation, no matter how you try to rationalize it. This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

sudosysgen 5y ago
I don't think they meant it was not exploitative when they compared it to Feudalism, hopefully everyone agrees that feudalism is extremely exploitative. I agree however that what was done to Lula is so bad it's got to be one of the worst affronts to democracy anywhere. It's a shame our media give it so little attention.
thescriptkiddie 5y ago
I don't think I disagree with you at all. I do not mean to downplay the harm done by organized crime, just to view the motivations of criminals from a materialist perspective. We can only pray that the CIA doesn't do to Lula what they did to Allende.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  Allende existed in a different time and place. He was in contempt of Chile's Congress due to alleged violations of Chile's Constitution, was supported by Marxist paramilitaries being supported by the USSR, and had praised the Communist revolution in Cuba and the dictator that it had brought to power.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
There is absolutely no evidence for any of this global "neoliberal" conspiracy theory. The Western states have been embracing social democracy, predicated on forced income redistribution - the very opposite of "neoliberalism" - at an unprecedented rate: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-longrun https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long... These ideological narratives that claim that political parties which advocate for more government power, are the underdog, going up against powerful forces who prefer free markets, looks like nothing more than propaganda to entrench and expand the power of the state and its functionaries.
- cloudfifty 5y ago
  > The Western states have been embracing social democracy No, they haven't. Stop peddling this obvious bullshit based on a single figure stretched all the way to the moon. Social spending != social democracy. Social spending != welfare state. As I've asked for previously, and what you always - unsurprisingly - fail to provide: please present a single reputable, non-free-market think-tank, source that agrees that the "Western states" have been embracing social democracy the last few decades.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    High levels of social spending is indeed a hallmark of social democracy. The creation of major new social welfare programs, like Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and TANF, since 1960, corresponds with a massive increase in the share of economic output expropriated by the state for the purpose of expending it on social programs. Claiming Western states did not experience a transition to a more social democratic economic model, amidst the creation of major social welfare programs, and a massive increase in social welfare spending, is insane gaslighting. >>a single figure What an incredibly disingenuous way to characterize the share of GDP spent on government social welfare programs. This is an all-encompassing figure that encapsulates every major type of social democratic spending. Claiming that me using this extremely revealing macro-economic statistic, as evidence of the rise of social democracy, as: "peddling this obvious bullshit based on a single figure stretched all the way to the moon" is a desperate attempt to gaslight the public to hide reality from it. >>non-free-market think-tank Any think tank worth its salt is pro-free-market. Non-free-market think tanks are ideologically-motivated crank organizations, and usually on the payroll of the direct beneficiaries of social democracy - public sector unions. Whether social democracy ideologues/apologists will admit that Western states experienced a massive transition to a more social democratic economic model over the last 60 years, doesn't change what the evidence, and any remotely sane analysis of it, shows.