4 ms·

I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first. There was an event I participated abou

I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first. There was an event I participated about this, I was teaching about gamedev using opensource tools, a lot of people paid to go, the government then brought in a ton of people from the favelas as part of their "digital inclusion" program, although I was happy to teach them, later I heard many of them just stole people's computers, mouses, keyboards, etc... and bolted, a good chunk of the "digital inclusion" people that went for free, didn't sit in a single workshop, instead they just disappeared, and a ton of equipment with them. Even outside favelas, our infrastructure is just shit too, I work from home and losing power and internet is a constant threat, sometimes water goes out too. And corruption in general just runs deep, I know a TV producer that was hired to make an Ad for the government, he had to record a government building inside a favela, to make the ad for the government, yet the local government guy wouldn't let him inside to make the recording the government was demanding, he had to approach a congressman about it, and the guy just flat demanded 10k to "do his thing" and make it work. He did paid the guy, then after that the drug lord demanded another 10k to allow the TV crew inside the favela without being shot. After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals.

csdvrx 5y ago
> After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals. It seems to me that one care more about his constituents that the other!
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Something interesting in American history circa a century ago was the party machine, which combined both roles into one. The fact that it's not around today could be a sign of either a decline in corruption, or a decline in the importance of getting voters to be really strongly on your side (as opposed to being 1% less bad than the other candidate).
  - pc86 5y ago
    This might sound out of left field but (hear me out) I think the decline is due in large part to gerrymandering. 100 years ago you had a lot of pretty competitive races where party control might switch often. It was incumbent on the party machine you mention to make sure all its supporters got out. You'd usually see the party rally around whoever won the primary, because there was still another election to win. Fast forward through some pretty aggressive and technologically advanced gerrymandering, and something like 90% of congressional seats are pretty well insulated from drastic party changes election over election. The primary becomes the only election that matters for most districts, which pushes both parties to the extremes. Because the primary is the only one that matters, there is little to no incentive to rally around your chosen candidate - you just fight that much harder for your favorite one next time. Solidifying party control in most districts has somewhat paradoxically weakened party control over the process while simultaneously pushing elected candidates to the extremes.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      You make a very good point about the nascent extremism - as primaries become the only elections that matter, and because you need extreme candidates to flip those locked districts, there is little reward in moderation. I find it funny how Republicans embraced extremism while Democrats seem to be more averse to it, even though they'd have much to gain in this scenario. This is what I really like about Ireland's elections - they are so effective in weeding out extremists that the two dominant political forces are almost indistinguishable. It's, perhaps, too efficient in that, but it also seems to be extremely safe and long-term stable.
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        You are saying this as SF is in pole position to form a government (not calling them extremists but comparing them to the main two)
  - rackjack 5y ago
    I think it's both, due to secret ballots and first past the post voting, for example.
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
It sounds like Lula is leading in the polls, and it sounds like the best thing for the working people of Brazil is to elect him.
- dyingkneepad 5y ago
  He is not a genocide but is also a corrupt guy in a corrupt party (although it's clear he will be better for the working class than Bolsonaro, but I bet even your mother as President would be better for the working class than Bolsonaro). Option #3 (Sérgio Moro) has also been shown to work outside the law, so the "corrupt" label aplies to him as well. No other candidate has any chances of winning. Regardless of the president, the people are going to elect the very same senators and Congressman, so there is just no hope.
rightbyte 5y ago
How could the congressman influence the recording permit process? What new car goes for 10k? I believe you it is bad but that sounds like your friend is spreading a tall tale.
- brabel 5y ago
  Cars in Brazil are more expensive than in the USA. For 10K you can't buy even the cheapest car. 10K is not even a lot of money, most professionals earn more than that per month (I am thinking that's 10K Reais, not Dollars... with the devaluation of the currency, 10K dollars would actually be a lot of money now, around 55K reais... it used to be closer to 1-to-1 not long ago!).
ForOldHack 5y ago
"I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. " Wow. On the ground. Please tell us much more.
whizzter 5y ago
Having been a teacher for unemployed people that event just sounds like it was planned(unintentionally) to fail for these "inclusives". If a sub-group (esp with people who probably knows each other) comes in with a far lower general skill level it's very easy to lose them to an inadequacy feeling that makes them give up if they expect to fail, being a teacher this is very very hard to notice because in a mixed group the top and middle percentages will ask questions and generally feel as "getting it" but those already feeling stupid often doesn't dare ask questions (but often nod or similar simulating being "smart" to not stand out).
usrusr 5y ago
From my comfy first world perspective (far from Silicon Valley level, but still..) I consider gaming an addiction not without its own perils. But if it substitutes widespread substance addiction, even if only in part, it is a big step forward. Gaming can be a powerful push towards increased digital literacy, particularly for gamers with low buying power. There's a much wider and more healthy path from purely consumptive gaming to being productive in the field of the digital than from purely consumptive substance abuse to being productive in the field of chemistry or whatever (even if the very well-told fiction of Breaking Bad might suggest otherwise). It's certainly no substitute for infrastructure, order and education, but that doesn't necessarily imply that investment in one cannot be more worthwhile than investment in the other. Don't skip on the hanging fruits in one field because you haven't solved all hard problems in the other.

csdvrx 5y ago

> After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals. It seems to me that one care more about his constituents that the other!

whatshisface 5y ago
Something interesting in American history circa a century ago was the party machine, which combined both roles into one. The fact that it's not around today could be a sign of either a decline in corruption, or a decline in the importance of getting voters to be really strongly on your side (as opposed to being 1% less bad than the other candidate).
- pc86 5y ago
  This might sound out of left field but (hear me out) I think the decline is due in large part to gerrymandering. 100 years ago you had a lot of pretty competitive races where party control might switch often. It was incumbent on the party machine you mention to make sure all its supporters got out. You'd usually see the party rally around whoever won the primary, because there was still another election to win. Fast forward through some pretty aggressive and technologically advanced gerrymandering, and something like 90% of congressional seats are pretty well insulated from drastic party changes election over election. The primary becomes the only election that matters for most districts, which pushes both parties to the extremes. Because the primary is the only one that matters, there is little to no incentive to rally around your chosen candidate - you just fight that much harder for your favorite one next time. Solidifying party control in most districts has somewhat paradoxically weakened party control over the process while simultaneously pushing elected candidates to the extremes.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    You make a very good point about the nascent extremism - as primaries become the only elections that matter, and because you need extreme candidates to flip those locked districts, there is little reward in moderation. I find it funny how Republicans embraced extremism while Democrats seem to be more averse to it, even though they'd have much to gain in this scenario. This is what I really like about Ireland's elections - they are so effective in weeding out extremists that the two dominant political forces are almost indistinguishable. It's, perhaps, too efficient in that, but it also seems to be extremely safe and long-term stable.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      You are saying this as SF is in pole position to form a government (not calling them extremists but comparing them to the main two)
- rackjack 5y ago
  I think it's both, due to secret ballots and first past the post voting, for example.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

It sounds like Lula is leading in the polls, and it sounds like the best thing for the working people of Brazil is to elect him.

dyingkneepad 5y ago
He is not a genocide but is also a corrupt guy in a corrupt party (although it's clear he will be better for the working class than Bolsonaro, but I bet even your mother as President would be better for the working class than Bolsonaro). Option #3 (Sérgio Moro) has also been shown to work outside the law, so the "corrupt" label aplies to him as well. No other candidate has any chances of winning. Regardless of the president, the people are going to elect the very same senators and Congressman, so there is just no hope.

rightbyte 5y ago

How could the congressman influence the recording permit process? What new car goes for 10k? I believe you it is bad but that sounds like your friend is spreading a tall tale.

brabel 5y ago
Cars in Brazil are more expensive than in the USA. For 10K you can't buy even the cheapest car. 10K is not even a lot of money, most professionals earn more than that per month (I am thinking that's 10K Reais, not Dollars... with the devaluation of the currency, 10K dollars would actually be a lot of money now, around 55K reais... it used to be closer to 1-to-1 not long ago!).

ForOldHack 5y ago

"I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. " Wow. On the ground. Please tell us much more.

whizzter 5y ago

Having been a teacher for unemployed people that event just sounds like it was planned(unintentionally) to fail for these "inclusives". If a sub-group (esp with people who probably knows each other) comes in with a far lower general skill level it's very easy to lose them to an inadequacy feeling that makes them give up if they expect to fail, being a teacher this is very very hard to notice because in a mixed group the top and middle percentages will ask questions and generally feel as "getting it" but those already feeling stupid often doesn't dare ask questions (but often nod or similar simulating being "smart" to not stand out).

usrusr 5y ago

From my comfy first world perspective (far from Silicon Valley level, but still..) I consider gaming an addiction not without its own perils. But if it substitutes widespread substance addiction, even if only in part, it is a big step forward. Gaming can be a powerful push towards increased digital literacy, particularly for gamers with low buying power. There's a much wider and more healthy path from purely consumptive gaming to being productive in the field of the digital than from purely consumptive substance abuse to being productive in the field of chemistry or whatever (even if the very well-told fiction of Breaking Bad might suggest otherwise). It's certainly no substitute for infrastructure, order and education, but that doesn't necessarily imply that investment in one cannot be more worthwhile than investment in the other. Don't skip on the hanging fruits in one field because you haven't solved all hard problems in the other.