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I'm classified as a "violent criminal" by the state by way of having a violent felony. Not trying to be inflammatory, but this sounds like awful idea, mostly p

I'm classified as a "violent criminal" by the state by way of having a violent felony. Not trying to be inflammatory, but this sounds like awful idea, mostly psychological and societal at large. In my experience, many, many people have this "us vs. them" attitude towards criminals, as in "I would never commit a crime so therefore they are not like us." The reality is, countless people are either innocent or one-time offenders (or others who likely do not "deserve" exile). Further division along further boundaries is probably not what we need, especially one which is nearly certain to be universally looked down upon. So, IMO, resources would be much better spent improving what we have (a lot), making sure justice & sentencing is fair and consistent, and certainly doing a much better job of post-incarceration support, community, and monitoring. I would wager that many, many more people can be helped out of their circumstances than are currently, but prisoners are almost dropped entirely once they're released.

simmanian 5y ago
Thank you for sharing. I personally view "violent criminals" as regular human beings and believe we should stop classifying people as violent criminals the moment they no longer pose significant danger to others. But maybe you're right in seeing that most don't share these views. Regardless, what I'm trying to say is ALL people deserve to organize themselves in ways that lead to safe, healthy, and happy lives. We should not torture people for decades for murdering others. Rather, let them live in a way that allows them to thrive while protecting the rest from getting harmed.
- _moof 5y ago
  I get where you're coming from but realize that you're advocating for indefinite sentences, which are inhumane, combined with a board of fallible, perversely incentivized people who will determine who is rehabilitated and who isn't. The board will presumably be subject to the will of a sadistic, vengeful public who have cartoonish beliefs about a system they have no direct knowledge of, and who completely fail to understand even the most basic rights afforded under the constitution. (Go look at just about any tweet about the fifth amendment.) It sounds great on paper but the second real people get involved, it becomes a humans rights disaster.
  - simmanian 5y ago
    I agree that it would be difficult to implement these practices at once. But the core idea, that all people have the right to organize in a way that leads to sustainable happiness, can be implemented in small chunks in many different, less controversial aspects of our lives. I imagine if the idea gets enough traction, we can then take a good look at how we treat those who refuse to harmonize with the general population.
JimBlackwood 5y ago
Thanks for sharing. Especially the “us vs. them”-view. I recently realised this while watching Gordon Ramsay’s Bad Boy Bakery. The sentiment (I assume often portrayed intentionally by the show) about prisoners really both shocked and confused me. It’s as if people want prisoners to do absolutely nothing, somehow still act according to their rules and then somehow flourish in society after release. imo, prison systems should be more focused on learning crafts and education in general. I feel like the vast majority are in for minor crimes and somehow their life should be ruined for it. Doesn’t seem just. There’s definitely some people who pose a permanent danger to society, and some prison sentences will seem just. But there’s no reason they should be bored out of their minds
- ddoolin 5y ago
  That's an interesting reference, thanks. I kinda skimmed through a couple episodes on YouTube actually. I don't think I watched enough to pick up on nuanced portrayal of prisoners but I do understand what you're saying nonetheless. I was lucky enough to go in and come out with a job but it appears any reason or amount of time is heavily stigmatized in so many other ways (total ban on immigration to many countries, automatic bans or denials for things that utilize background checks, negative judgment from friends and family, general assumption of guilt in many scenarios, etc). I very much agree re: focus on education. I spent some time in a new facility and they had good classrooms and programs for it and I saw a lot of interest in them. That said, I think boredom is often seen by many as a desirable part of the punishment.

simmanian 5y ago

Thank you for sharing. I personally view "violent criminals" as regular human beings and believe we should stop classifying people as violent criminals the moment they no longer pose significant danger to others. But maybe you're right in seeing that most don't share these views. Regardless, what I'm trying to say is ALL people deserve to organize themselves in ways that lead to safe, healthy, and happy lives. We should not torture people for decades for murdering others. Rather, let them live in a way that allows them to thrive while protecting the rest from getting harmed.

_moof 5y ago
I get where you're coming from but realize that you're advocating for indefinite sentences, which are inhumane, combined with a board of fallible, perversely incentivized people who will determine who is rehabilitated and who isn't. The board will presumably be subject to the will of a sadistic, vengeful public who have cartoonish beliefs about a system they have no direct knowledge of, and who completely fail to understand even the most basic rights afforded under the constitution. (Go look at just about any tweet about the fifth amendment.) It sounds great on paper but the second real people get involved, it becomes a humans rights disaster.
- simmanian 5y ago
  I agree that it would be difficult to implement these practices at once. But the core idea, that all people have the right to organize in a way that leads to sustainable happiness, can be implemented in small chunks in many different, less controversial aspects of our lives. I imagine if the idea gets enough traction, we can then take a good look at how we treat those who refuse to harmonize with the general population.

JimBlackwood 5y ago

Thanks for sharing. Especially the “us vs. them”-view. I recently realised this while watching Gordon Ramsay’s Bad Boy Bakery. The sentiment (I assume often portrayed intentionally by the show) about prisoners really both shocked and confused me. It’s as if people want prisoners to do absolutely nothing, somehow still act according to their rules and then somehow flourish in society after release. imo, prison systems should be more focused on learning crafts and education in general. I feel like the vast majority are in for minor crimes and somehow their life should be ruined for it. Doesn’t seem just. There’s definitely some people who pose a permanent danger to society, and some prison sentences will seem just. But there’s no reason they should be bored out of their minds

ddoolin 5y ago
That's an interesting reference, thanks. I kinda skimmed through a couple episodes on YouTube actually. I don't think I watched enough to pick up on nuanced portrayal of prisoners but I do understand what you're saying nonetheless. I was lucky enough to go in and come out with a job but it appears any reason or amount of time is heavily stigmatized in so many other ways (total ban on immigration to many countries, automatic bans or denials for things that utilize background checks, negative judgment from friends and family, general assumption of guilt in many scenarios, etc). I very much agree re: focus on education. I spent some time in a new facility and they had good classrooms and programs for it and I saw a lot of interest in them. That said, I think boredom is often seen by many as a desirable part of the punishment.