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How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adama

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by the cartels operating there. I'm glad that's not the case, but I wish the article had more information about how these people were able to operate safely.

dasil003 5y ago
Because they live there and have relationships, it's very different from a tourist who just looks like a cash machine.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  They may be a degree of liability involved too - take/encourage/let tourists go there and it could have consequences for the tour operator? I am very much not a lawyer.
- aylmao 5y ago
  Depends on the city/country, but there's also an argument affecting tourists is just not worth it. Money isn't the goal, money + little trouble is the goal. If a city is a big tourist destination, the bad press, the potential involvement of foreign nations, the outcry from the tourism industry, etc are all good reasons for local law enforcement to strike back hard. Especially if overwhelmed, it's very possible local law enforcement wont give the same weight to an investigation involving only locals and one involving a foreigner, especially if the eyes of, say, Germany are staring at you.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA
gdcbe 5y ago
I lived at the edge of 2 favellas for a couple of months as part of my short life in Brazil. I can tell you, while their houses are small and simple made they often have high tech in their houses. Partly due to the fact that their government had programs allowing them to buy it cheaply. From my limited experience the problem wasn’t so much that tech wasn’t or couldn’t be available but that a lot of them couldn’t even read. They provide electricity tapped from the net and everything. Also remember that for these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos. Especially over the long run.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  What would be impossible for most of us, but some born and raised there, have no problem to spend their live living there, in their community. Another reason: The rent is cheap, energy and internet is "for free".
- thescriptkiddie 5y ago
  > these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the lens of feudalism. Criminal gangs are not sociopathic comic book villains interested in violence for the fun of it, they are more like landlords, and are in it for money, security, and a sense of community. Medieval kings, the Italian/American/Japanese mafias, South/Central American drug cartels, and Middle Eastern/African "warlords" are all cut from the same cloth.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    That is an insane perspective. The favelas are a site of extreme exploitation, no matter how you try to rationalize it. This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA
vm 5y ago
12M+ people live in favelas. Many parts are safe.
pelasaco 5y ago
if you live there and you earn your respect from the community, you are safe. In most favelas, criminals are not allowed to steal from other residents. They have their own rules. The real metaverse.
- goldenchrome 5y ago
  The real metaverse? You mean... a community?
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    no, more like a meta universe. Running inside Brazil, but with their own set of rules and tradition. For some it is a Dystopian reality. For others, just another day in the office.
    - goldenchrome 5y ago
      You've got to be joking. Now you're describing a country.
- dudus 5y ago
  The drug dealers for all the bad they do they also support and help the community a lot. This is part of their strategy, the community in turn protect them, hide them. In many favelas the drug lord is the law, and the law is don't poop where you eat. You may be able to steal from people outside the favela but not inside the favela, if you do the punishment can be medieval, like cut hands or even death. It's not only for residents though. Even as a tourist you are probably safe in a favela, it's their interest you feel safe so you don't feel intimidated to go buy drugs. But again after living in Rio and São Paulo for many years I wouldn't recommend anyone to do that.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Killing is legal in the favelas?
smoe 5y ago
Don't know much about Rio, but what I have seen and heard elsewhere in Latin America over the years. Often times organized crimes substitutes an absent government and enforce their own set of law and order in the community. They can't afford to just rob the people blind as sometimes portrayed in media. They rely on a somewhat sybmiotic relationship with the "citizens" to act as messengers, human surveillance cameras, warning them from unknown people entering, making false statements to the police etc. The gangs are often much more effective at crime prevention than the government, they often invest more locally than the government. A big chunk of the violet crimes comes from conflicts between gangs. If you are part of the community and stay in line you can actually be pretty safe. As a tourist on the other hand, you are fair game. Obviously, it is not everything is rosy and nice, but in my opinion one of the big challenges in facing organized crime, is that the governments don't actually have a believable improvement to offer to the people, so the locals will often defend the current situation.
- cpach 5y ago
  I guess that’s how it has also been in parts of Italy (and maybe still is, to some extent…?)
  - 4ggr0 5y ago
    I mean, the dynamic of people acting as watchdogs and the community bundling together can be noticed in a lot of villages over the world, I think. Of course, the special thing about the Favelas and Mafia-controlled areas is the violence and fear. But that's just a speculation from me.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged. The strongest local gang establishes a monopoly on violence in their territory. They then extract tribute (taxes) from the local population in various ways. If they get too greedy and extract too much, then eventually the plebs have little enough to lose to break their established order and fight the establishment gang. The most competent gangs find the equilibrium of taxation that is the maximum they can extract without suffocating production and innovation or creating an opposing revolution. So, in locations where this has happened in modern states, it simply demonstrates that the "official" police and state have failed to manage their monopoly on violence properly, and are being actively out competed by a more effective organization that, if it continues to sustainably control its territory, will eventually become recognized as the new legitimate state.
iqanq 5y ago
speeder 5y ago
I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first. There was an event I participated about this, I was teaching about gamedev using opensource tools, a lot of people paid to go, the government then brought in a ton of people from the favelas as part of their "digital inclusion" program, although I was happy to teach them, later I heard many of them just stole people's computers, mouses, keyboards, etc... and bolted, a good chunk of the "digital inclusion" people that went for free, didn't sit in a single workshop, instead they just disappeared, and a ton of equipment with them. Even outside favelas, our infrastructure is just shit too, I work from home and losing power and internet is a constant threat, sometimes water goes out too. And corruption in general just runs deep, I know a TV producer that was hired to make an Ad for the government, he had to record a government building inside a favela, to make the ad for the government, yet the local government guy wouldn't let him inside to make the recording the government was demanding, he had to approach a congressman about it, and the guy just flat demanded 10k to "do his thing" and make it work. He did paid the guy, then after that the drug lord demanded another 10k to allow the TV crew inside the favela without being shot. After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals. It seems to me that one care more about his constituents that the other!
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Something interesting in American history circa a century ago was the party machine, which combined both roles into one. The fact that it's not around today could be a sign of either a decline in corruption, or a decline in the importance of getting voters to be really strongly on your side (as opposed to being 1% less bad than the other candidate).
vmception 5y ago
Its exaggerated, there would probably be no remedy for you if it occurred but that doesn't mean people don't have other shit going on. Most “dangerous ghettos” are the same way. If people dont have beef with you they arent just looking to take advantage. A sociopathic person with a badge is much more dangerous because they dont have to collaborate at all, unlike civilians.
cpach 5y ago
I don’t have first-hand knowledge of this but according to what I have read about the favelas it’s like a shadow society basically. I.e. they have their own rules, companies, infrastructure. IIRC the book I read it in was probably Stewart Brand’s “Whole Earth Discipline”.
Carioca 5y ago
Crime syndicates keep the peace in these communities, and they can be negotiated with.
wolverine876 5y ago
Any time you hear those extremes about any place - e.g., lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense. People live there; they are biologically the same as you; they live, breathe and think, they not complete idiots. They aren't organizing, tolerating or sticking around a situation like that. (That said, I know nothing about favelas or what is wise or unwise to do in them.)
- ghaff 5y ago
  >lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense In general (although it used to be truer). That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question. What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most places if you blend in reasonably, keep valuables hidden, and look like you know what you're doing.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. We can always construct hypothetical situations that meet some criteria. I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.
    - marcan_42 5y ago
      > I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city. It's pretty safe in Tokyo. Not every city requires you to be on the constant lookout for your own safety. Perhaps you're used to cities with higher crime rates, and are projecting that onto every city.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        > Perhaps you're used to cities with higher crime rates, and are projecting that onto every city. Must we make up hypotheticals for my state of mind too? Perhaps stick to the facts and stay away from the person.
kilroy123 5y ago
My ex girlfriend lived in Brazil for ~10 years and her job was running tours to the favelas. She told me there were fairly strict rules about this sort of thing. The gangs there cared about drugs and making money. As long as you weren't there interfering with them making money, they didn't really care about you as a tourist. They might get a phone or pocket change from you but why waste time and money on just that? Bigger fish to fry. In all the years my ex hungout and worked in the favela, not one bad thing happened to her. Which surprised the hell out of me. (She was a foreigner but spoke the language)
- aylmao 5y ago
  I'm from Mexico— there's plenty of "bad places" there too. You really don't want something bad to happen to a tourist, so you focus on the worst-case scenario. It akin to a children and streets; it's easier to tell children to avoid crossing a street and not have to worry, even if statistically it's pretty unlikely an accident would happen. Moreover, since the news largely focuses on the tragedies, it's easy to get an inflated sense of danger. I know people who live in Culiacán, right in the center of the Sinaloa Cartel. They'll tell me every day in the news someone is dead. Nonetheless, they live worry-free, peaceful lives. In a city of 1 million, and especially if you're not involved with cartels, even considering the homicide rates are much higher than they should, it's very unlikely something bad will happen to you.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Is Mazatlán considered a "bad" place?
    - aylmao 5y ago
      I wouldn't say so. I've never been to Mazatlán, but I've heard it's quite nice. IMO there aren't "bad cities" in Mexico, but cities might have neighborhoods or areas to avoid. I know people in Culiacán, famously at the center of the Sinaloa Cartel and often in the news as a dangerous place. They live a tranquil life, like anyone else would. What they complain most about is just how hot it gets in the summer. Going back to my point though if a friend were visiting I'd just tell them to stick to Mazatlán or other known touristy places. Both for the peace of mind and because its easier to get around with English.
cassianoleal 5y ago
> When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. Tourists stand out like a sore thumb as a target. Your guide was probably right.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
A friend of mine's company does the favela tour with cooperation from the community and has been doing it safely for almost twenty years now: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d2477506-Reviews-Be_a_Local_Tours-Rio_de_Janeiro_State_of_Rio_de_Janeiro.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d24775... https://www.instagram.com/bealocaltours/ https://www.instagram.com/bealocaltours/
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA
humaniania 5y ago
There are some YouTuber travel channels that have fascinating on the ground footage of the favelas in Brazil. It's not as extreme as you think. I very much recommend these two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9kpw5vxh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9kpw5vxh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW-V3_-FgA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW-V3_-FgA
kranke155 5y ago
This is pretty wild and an exaggeration. You’ll get robbed if you’re not a local, sure. Crime in the favelas is again afaik a very local thing. I’ve had lunch and dinner in restaurants in favelas and I know there’s a favela in Rio where people go for night life. Ofc I am Brazilian and have family there. A lot of these favelas the gang that controls them holds the peace. As a gringo you’d get robbed immediately sure, but for locals? The favelas are not some insane dystopian nightmare for many people who live in them. They’re just poor places, shanty towns.
poisonarena 5y ago
I lived in a favela in Rio Comprido controlled by comando vermelho (tropa 17) all 2019/2020.. I used to visit my gf and her family, at first but then when the pandemic happened I rented the 'apartment' underneath their 'apartment'. Everyday I would walk past the the checkpoint with like a 15 year old guy with an extened clip glock behind a makeshift cement barrier. The internet situation was pretty weird, some telecom, that I could barely get any info on made a deal with the comando to provide everyone with internet. every month I would walk up with my gf further up the hill where the C.V. headquarters were and we would pay I think about 20 dollars to the boss, this big fat black guy with a revolver and a metal cash box, and a list on paper of all the families that paid, and what speed/tier they paid for, I opted for the 30 dollar a month ultrafast bandwidth(i didnt notice a difference), but it was fast enough for my gf who was Gold in League of Legends to have 40 ping. This was not one of the major telecoms, and they had some sort of deal with the C.V. and when the internet would fuck up the Commando even had technicians https://imgur.com/a/J9QjBuQ https://imgur.com/a/J9QjBuQ here is the favela across the way from the checkpoint CV is selling drugs on a ping pong table, one day when my gf+her family was out of town I just had to go see what the deal was and bought a little bit of everything https://imgur.com/a/DD1xeh6 https://imgur.com/a/DD1xeh6 CV stands for Comando vermelho(red command) and PR stands for the favela Paula Ramos.. CV also made money from the little busses that i took to come and go, the other way they make lots of money is selling gas, and selling guns to bandits. EDIT: Also forgot to mention I never felt unsafe at all, and have been robbed only outside of the favela.. If there is any crime or stuff like that the comando would kill the robber or thieves. I only felt unsafe when the police/bope would come on raids, because they didnt get their monthly bribe.
- verhaust 5y ago
  Thanks for the local insight. I found it very interesting. How did they handle the pandemic? Where did you end up moving to and what was the reason you decided to move?
  - poisonarena 5y ago
    Well.. when the pandemic first started people were more wild, we all had masks and hand gel everywhere before they started doing it even in USA. My gf's parents were evangelical christinans so they believed all sorts of wild stuff, and I just went with it. After a week or two the family got more lax because of birthdays and family events and it was pretty much unavoidable, we all got covid. I was coughing for a day, and my gf couldnt taste anything for a few days, the rest of the family was fine. maybe a month after that,everyone said fuck it and things went back to normal more or less. It was pretty funny seeing the Comando enforce mask wearing when the government didn't. I ended up not staying with my gf, COVID and cabin fever and living under her parents house really screwed up our relationship.
sangnoir 5y ago
> My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by the cartels operating there. Your understanding appears to be empirically wrong. The thing about poverty is that you learn to depend on those around you, and gang membership aligns by neighborhood or even specific blocks. Outsiders may be fair game, but locals have built relationships within the community over years. The armed gang member may feel some loyalty to the organization that let him play games when he was 10, and he has a cousin/friend on the eSports team. There are very few secrets in such close-knit communities you cannot secretly steal and fence the equipment without someone knowing - outsiders can't either because there is always someone keeping vigilance (hence the guns).
trembonator 5y ago
qwerty456127 5y ago
> How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? BTW Netflix even produced a whole 4-season dystopian scifi TV show about how resourceful young people from Brazil's favelas can be - "3%". It's quite watchable and provides some interesting clues.
kvgr 5y ago
I was on tour with a local guide, in 3 favelas and I felt safe. There is a lot of favelas, some are better and some are worse. Some are basically "safe" when you live there, normal shops, schools and so on. Petty crime is often worse in the good streets below, because thugs and kids go to steel from tourists. I would not go the by my self at night. But there are big differences between favelas.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Not to claim that what you were told isn’t true, but when people make such claims, it is often the case that they have little experience going into those areas themselves, and are simply relaying the stereotypes.

dasil003 5y ago

Because they live there and have relationships, it's very different from a tourist who just looks like a cash machine.

lostlogin 5y ago
They may be a degree of liability involved too - take/encourage/let tourists go there and it could have consequences for the tour operator? I am very much not a lawyer.
aylmao 5y ago
Depends on the city/country, but there's also an argument affecting tourists is just not worth it. Money isn't the goal, money + little trouble is the goal. If a city is a big tourist destination, the bad press, the potential involvement of foreign nations, the outcry from the tourism industry, etc are all good reasons for local law enforcement to strike back hard. Especially if overwhelmed, it's very possible local law enforcement wont give the same weight to an investigation involving only locals and one involving a foreigner, especially if the eyes of, say, Germany are staring at you.
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

gdcbe 5y ago

I lived at the edge of 2 favellas for a couple of months as part of my short life in Brazil. I can tell you, while their houses are small and simple made they often have high tech in their houses. Partly due to the fact that their government had programs allowing them to buy it cheaply. From my limited experience the problem wasn’t so much that tech wasn’t or couldn’t be available but that a lot of them couldn’t even read. They provide electricity tapped from the net and everything. Also remember that for these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos. Especially over the long run.

pelasaco 5y ago
What would be impossible for most of us, but some born and raised there, have no problem to spend their live living there, in their community. Another reason: The rent is cheap, energy and internet is "for free".
thescriptkiddie 5y ago
> these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the lens of feudalism. Criminal gangs are not sociopathic comic book villains interested in violence for the fun of it, they are more like landlords, and are in it for money, security, and a sense of community. Medieval kings, the Italian/American/Japanese mafias, South/Central American drug cartels, and Middle Eastern/African "warlords" are all cut from the same cloth.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  That is an insane perspective. The favelas are a site of extreme exploitation, no matter how you try to rationalize it. This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

vm 5y ago

12M+ people live in favelas. Many parts are safe.

pelasaco 5y ago

if you live there and you earn your respect from the community, you are safe. In most favelas, criminals are not allowed to steal from other residents. They have their own rules. The real metaverse.

goldenchrome 5y ago
The real metaverse? You mean... a community?
- pelasaco 5y ago
  no, more like a meta universe. Running inside Brazil, but with their own set of rules and tradition. For some it is a Dystopian reality. For others, just another day in the office.
  - goldenchrome 5y ago
    You've got to be joking. Now you're describing a country.
dudus 5y ago
The drug dealers for all the bad they do they also support and help the community a lot. This is part of their strategy, the community in turn protect them, hide them. In many favelas the drug lord is the law, and the law is don't poop where you eat. You may be able to steal from people outside the favela but not inside the favela, if you do the punishment can be medieval, like cut hands or even death. It's not only for residents though. Even as a tourist you are probably safe in a favela, it's their interest you feel safe so you don't feel intimidated to go buy drugs. But again after living in Rio and São Paulo for many years I wouldn't recommend anyone to do that.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Killing is legal in the favelas?

smoe 5y ago

Don't know much about Rio, but what I have seen and heard elsewhere in Latin America over the years. Often times organized crimes substitutes an absent government and enforce their own set of law and order in the community. They can't afford to just rob the people blind as sometimes portrayed in media. They rely on a somewhat sybmiotic relationship with the "citizens" to act as messengers, human surveillance cameras, warning them from unknown people entering, making false statements to the police etc. The gangs are often much more effective at crime prevention than the government, they often invest more locally than the government. A big chunk of the violet crimes comes from conflicts between gangs. If you are part of the community and stay in line you can actually be pretty safe. As a tourist on the other hand, you are fair game. Obviously, it is not everything is rosy and nice, but in my opinion one of the big challenges in facing organized crime, is that the governments don't actually have a believable improvement to offer to the people, so the locals will often defend the current situation.

cpach 5y ago
I guess that’s how it has also been in parts of Italy (and maybe still is, to some extent…?)
- 4ggr0 5y ago
  I mean, the dynamic of people acting as watchdogs and the community bundling together can be noticed in a lot of villages over the world, I think. Of course, the special thing about the Favelas and Mafia-controlled areas is the violence and fear. But that's just a speculation from me.
anonporridge 5y ago
The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged. The strongest local gang establishes a monopoly on violence in their territory. They then extract tribute (taxes) from the local population in various ways. If they get too greedy and extract too much, then eventually the plebs have little enough to lose to break their established order and fight the establishment gang. The most competent gangs find the equilibrium of taxation that is the maximum they can extract without suffocating production and innovation or creating an opposing revolution. So, in locations where this has happened in modern states, it simply demonstrates that the "official" police and state have failed to manage their monopoly on violence properly, and are being actively out competed by a more effective organization that, if it continues to sustainably control its territory, will eventually become recognized as the new legitimate state.

iqanq 5y ago

speeder 5y ago

I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first. There was an event I participated about this, I was teaching about gamedev using opensource tools, a lot of people paid to go, the government then brought in a ton of people from the favelas as part of their "digital inclusion" program, although I was happy to teach them, later I heard many of them just stole people's computers, mouses, keyboards, etc... and bolted, a good chunk of the "digital inclusion" people that went for free, didn't sit in a single workshop, instead they just disappeared, and a ton of equipment with them. Even outside favelas, our infrastructure is just shit too, I work from home and losing power and internet is a constant threat, sometimes water goes out too. And corruption in general just runs deep, I know a TV producer that was hired to make an Ad for the government, he had to record a government building inside a favela, to make the ad for the government, yet the local government guy wouldn't let him inside to make the recording the government was demanding, he had to approach a congressman about it, and the guy just flat demanded 10k to "do his thing" and make it work. He did paid the guy, then after that the drug lord demanded another 10k to allow the TV crew inside the favela without being shot. After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals.

csdvrx 5y ago
> After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals. It seems to me that one care more about his constituents that the other!
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Something interesting in American history circa a century ago was the party machine, which combined both roles into one. The fact that it's not around today could be a sign of either a decline in corruption, or a decline in the importance of getting voters to be really strongly on your side (as opposed to being 1% less bad than the other candidate).

vmception 5y ago

Its exaggerated, there would probably be no remedy for you if it occurred but that doesn't mean people don't have other shit going on. Most “dangerous ghettos” are the same way. If people dont have beef with you they arent just looking to take advantage. A sociopathic person with a badge is much more dangerous because they dont have to collaborate at all, unlike civilians.

cpach 5y ago

I don’t have first-hand knowledge of this but according to what I have read about the favelas it’s like a shadow society basically. I.e. they have their own rules, companies, infrastructure. IIRC the book I read it in was probably Stewart Brand’s “Whole Earth Discipline”.

Carioca 5y ago

Crime syndicates keep the peace in these communities, and they can be negotiated with.

wolverine876 5y ago

Any time you hear those extremes about any place - e.g., lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense. People live there; they are biologically the same as you; they live, breathe and think, they not complete idiots. They aren't organizing, tolerating or sticking around a situation like that. (That said, I know nothing about favelas or what is wise or unwise to do in them.)

ghaff 5y ago
>lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense In general (although it used to be truer). That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question. What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most places if you blend in reasonably, keep valuables hidden, and look like you know what you're doing.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. We can always construct hypothetical situations that meet some criteria. I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    > I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city. It's pretty safe in Tokyo. Not every city requires you to be on the constant lookout for your own safety. Perhaps you're used to cities with higher crime rates, and are projecting that onto every city.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > Perhaps you're used to cities with higher crime rates, and are projecting that onto every city. Must we make up hypotheticals for my state of mind too? Perhaps stick to the facts and stay away from the person.

kilroy123 5y ago

My ex girlfriend lived in Brazil for ~10 years and her job was running tours to the favelas. She told me there were fairly strict rules about this sort of thing. The gangs there cared about drugs and making money. As long as you weren't there interfering with them making money, they didn't really care about you as a tourist. They might get a phone or pocket change from you but why waste time and money on just that? Bigger fish to fry. In all the years my ex hungout and worked in the favela, not one bad thing happened to her. Which surprised the hell out of me. (She was a foreigner but spoke the language)

aylmao 5y ago
I'm from Mexico— there's plenty of "bad places" there too. You really don't want something bad to happen to a tourist, so you focus on the worst-case scenario. It akin to a children and streets; it's easier to tell children to avoid crossing a street and not have to worry, even if statistically it's pretty unlikely an accident would happen. Moreover, since the news largely focuses on the tragedies, it's easy to get an inflated sense of danger. I know people who live in Culiacán, right in the center of the Sinaloa Cartel. They'll tell me every day in the news someone is dead. Nonetheless, they live worry-free, peaceful lives. In a city of 1 million, and especially if you're not involved with cartels, even considering the homicide rates are much higher than they should, it's very unlikely something bad will happen to you.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Is Mazatlán considered a "bad" place?
  - aylmao 5y ago
    I wouldn't say so. I've never been to Mazatlán, but I've heard it's quite nice. IMO there aren't "bad cities" in Mexico, but cities might have neighborhoods or areas to avoid. I know people in Culiacán, famously at the center of the Sinaloa Cartel and often in the news as a dangerous place. They live a tranquil life, like anyone else would. What they complain most about is just how hot it gets in the summer. Going back to my point though if a friend were visiting I'd just tell them to stick to Mazatlán or other known touristy places. Both for the peace of mind and because its easier to get around with English.

cassianoleal 5y ago

> When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. Tourists stand out like a sore thumb as a target. Your guide was probably right.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

A friend of mine's company does the favela tour with cooperation from the community and has been doing it safely for almost twenty years now: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d2477506-Reviews-Be_a_Local_Tours-Rio_de_Janeiro_State_of_Rio_de_Janeiro.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d24775... https://www.instagram.com/bealocaltours/ https://www.instagram.com/bealocaltours/

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

humaniania 5y ago

There are some YouTuber travel channels that have fascinating on the ground footage of the favelas in Brazil. It's not as extreme as you think. I very much recommend these two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9kpw5vxh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9kpw5vxh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW-V3_-FgA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW-V3_-FgA

kranke155 5y ago

This is pretty wild and an exaggeration. You’ll get robbed if you’re not a local, sure. Crime in the favelas is again afaik a very local thing. I’ve had lunch and dinner in restaurants in favelas and I know there’s a favela in Rio where people go for night life. Ofc I am Brazilian and have family there. A lot of these favelas the gang that controls them holds the peace. As a gringo you’d get robbed immediately sure, but for locals? The favelas are not some insane dystopian nightmare for many people who live in them. They’re just poor places, shanty towns.

poisonarena 5y ago

I lived in a favela in Rio Comprido controlled by comando vermelho (tropa 17) all 2019/2020.. I used to visit my gf and her family, at first but then when the pandemic happened I rented the 'apartment' underneath their 'apartment'. Everyday I would walk past the the checkpoint with like a 15 year old guy with an extened clip glock behind a makeshift cement barrier. The internet situation was pretty weird, some telecom, that I could barely get any info on made a deal with the comando to provide everyone with internet. every month I would walk up with my gf further up the hill where the C.V. headquarters were and we would pay I think about 20 dollars to the boss, this big fat black guy with a revolver and a metal cash box, and a list on paper of all the families that paid, and what speed/tier they paid for, I opted for the 30 dollar a month ultrafast bandwidth(i didnt notice a difference), but it was fast enough for my gf who was Gold in League of Legends to have 40 ping. This was not one of the major telecoms, and they had some sort of deal with the C.V. and when the internet would fuck up the Commando even had technicians https://imgur.com/a/J9QjBuQ https://imgur.com/a/J9QjBuQ here is the favela across the way from the checkpoint CV is selling drugs on a ping pong table, one day when my gf+her family was out of town I just had to go see what the deal was and bought a little bit of everything https://imgur.com/a/DD1xeh6 https://imgur.com/a/DD1xeh6 CV stands for Comando vermelho(red command) and PR stands for the favela Paula Ramos.. CV also made money from the little busses that i took to come and go, the other way they make lots of money is selling gas, and selling guns to bandits. EDIT: Also forgot to mention I never felt unsafe at all, and have been robbed only outside of the favela.. If there is any crime or stuff like that the comando would kill the robber or thieves. I only felt unsafe when the police/bope would come on raids, because they didnt get their monthly bribe.

verhaust 5y ago
Thanks for the local insight. I found it very interesting. How did they handle the pandemic? Where did you end up moving to and what was the reason you decided to move?
- poisonarena 5y ago
  Well.. when the pandemic first started people were more wild, we all had masks and hand gel everywhere before they started doing it even in USA. My gf's parents were evangelical christinans so they believed all sorts of wild stuff, and I just went with it. After a week or two the family got more lax because of birthdays and family events and it was pretty much unavoidable, we all got covid. I was coughing for a day, and my gf couldnt taste anything for a few days, the rest of the family was fine. maybe a month after that,everyone said fuck it and things went back to normal more or less. It was pretty funny seeing the Comando enforce mask wearing when the government didn't. I ended up not staying with my gf, COVID and cabin fever and living under her parents house really screwed up our relationship.

sangnoir 5y ago

> My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by the cartels operating there. Your understanding appears to be empirically wrong. The thing about poverty is that you learn to depend on those around you, and gang membership aligns by neighborhood or even specific blocks. Outsiders may be fair game, but locals have built relationships within the community over years. The armed gang member may feel some loyalty to the organization that let him play games when he was 10, and he has a cousin/friend on the eSports team. There are very few secrets in such close-knit communities you cannot secretly steal and fence the equipment without someone knowing - outsiders can't either because there is always someone keeping vigilance (hence the guns).

trembonator 5y ago

qwerty456127 5y ago

> How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? BTW Netflix even produced a whole 4-season dystopian scifi TV show about how resourceful young people from Brazil's favelas can be - "3%". It's quite watchable and provides some interesting clues.

kvgr 5y ago

I was on tour with a local guide, in 3 favelas and I felt safe. There is a lot of favelas, some are better and some are worse. Some are basically "safe" when you live there, normal shops, schools and so on. Petty crime is often worse in the good streets below, because thugs and kids go to steel from tourists. I would not go the by my self at night. But there are big differences between favelas.

wbsss4412 5y ago

Not to claim that what you were told isn’t true, but when people make such claims, it is often the case that they have little experience going into those areas themselves, and are simply relaying the stereotypes.