3 ms·

That argument reduces to: * The medieval warm period was warmed than today, which is false; thus * Solar activity might be the cause of large climate changes,

That argument reduces to: * The medieval warm period was warmed than today, which is false; thus * Solar activity might be the cause of large climate changes, which is doubtful, more so because the premise is wrong. Not enough to explain ocean acidity, why climate change is global, why there's a hole in the Antarctic's atmosphere...

gavanwoolery 15y ago
"the medieval warm period was warme[r] than today, which is false" Why is that false? There are many possible explanations for the latter anomalies - our CO2 output likely is part of influence, but hardly the only. Global temperatures, ocean acidity, and the ozone layer have all fluctuated dramatically over time, even long before humans existed. In fact, in the Archaean period and earlier, earth did not even have an ozone layer.
trevelyan 15y ago
Not to mention the melting of the permafrost, glacial retreat and the fact that Arctic ice levels are (yet again) reaching historic lows: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/arctic-ice-levels-hit-historic-low-researchers-say/ http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/arctic-ice-levels-hit-h... Theories of anthropogenic global warming pre-dated and predicted all of these developments.
- gavanwoolery 15y ago
  Funny, I think it depends on what propaganda you are swallowing ;) According to many studies, polar ice is actually increasing. http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/04/18/2059204/Antarctic-Ice-Is-Growing-Not-Melting-Away-At-Davis-Station http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/04/18/2059204/Antarctic-Ic... and http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13253 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13...
  - trevelyan 15y ago
    You must have me confused with someone who doesn't know the difference between the Arctic and Antarctic. The raw data on Arctic ice thickness comes from the Canadian Ice Service, Norwegian Meteorological Service daily satellite images: Arctic Mosaic of the LANCE-MODIS System, University of Bremen archive of sea ice concentration maps, ECMWF weather forecasts and radar images of Greenland from the Danish Meteorological Institute. So satellite photos basically, and you are right that I don't consider them propaganda. http://sites.google.com/site/arcticseaicegraphs/ http://sites.google.com/site/arcticseaicegraphs/ I haven't looked at the data behind the articles you cite since they aren't available as best I can find, and even the summaries merely claim that Antarctica is at best a wash with gains in one metric in one region possibly compensating for significant losses elsewhere. Thanks for playing though.
- vannevar 15y ago
  Antarctica is also losing ice mass (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20100108_Is_Antarctica_Melting.html http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20100108_Is_Antarc...). Articles suggesting it is gaining ice use selective measurements of sea ice rather than ice mass as a whole.

gavanwoolery 15y ago

"the medieval warm period was warme[r] than today, which is false" Why is that false? There are many possible explanations for the latter anomalies - our CO2 output likely is part of influence, but hardly the only. Global temperatures, ocean acidity, and the ozone layer have all fluctuated dramatically over time, even long before humans existed. In fact, in the Archaean period and earlier, earth did not even have an ozone layer.

trevelyan 15y ago

Not to mention the melting of the permafrost, glacial retreat and the fact that Arctic ice levels are (yet again) reaching historic lows: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/arctic-ice-levels-hit-historic-low-researchers-say/ http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/arctic-ice-levels-hit-h... Theories of anthropogenic global warming pre-dated and predicted all of these developments.

gavanwoolery 15y ago
Funny, I think it depends on what propaganda you are swallowing ;) According to many studies, polar ice is actually increasing. http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/04/18/2059204/Antarctic-Ice-Is-Growing-Not-Melting-Away-At-Davis-Station http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/04/18/2059204/Antarctic-Ic... and http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13253 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13...
- trevelyan 15y ago
  You must have me confused with someone who doesn't know the difference between the Arctic and Antarctic. The raw data on Arctic ice thickness comes from the Canadian Ice Service, Norwegian Meteorological Service daily satellite images: Arctic Mosaic of the LANCE-MODIS System, University of Bremen archive of sea ice concentration maps, ECMWF weather forecasts and radar images of Greenland from the Danish Meteorological Institute. So satellite photos basically, and you are right that I don't consider them propaganda. http://sites.google.com/site/arcticseaicegraphs/ http://sites.google.com/site/arcticseaicegraphs/ I haven't looked at the data behind the articles you cite since they aren't available as best I can find, and even the summaries merely claim that Antarctica is at best a wash with gains in one metric in one region possibly compensating for significant losses elsewhere. Thanks for playing though.
vannevar 15y ago
Antarctica is also losing ice mass (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20100108_Is_Antarctica_Melting.html http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/20100108_Is_Antarc...). Articles suggesting it is gaining ice use selective measurements of sea ice rather than ice mass as a whole.