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There are things I do not want to be democratically controlled. My ability to negotiate salaries with my boss is one of them. The scope of my job (some unions

There are things I do not want to be democratically controlled. My ability to negotiate salaries with my boss is one of them. The scope of my job (some unions get to decide what you are allowed to do). Who should get fired (teachers unions make it impossible for bad teachers to be fired, so students are forced to put up with them) If you should be allowed to work. Some unions forbid you to work during strikes. Often by force and by threat. Some unions manage to lobby for regulations that make it harder to get into a job. Then you need certifications and/or degrees to even consider a job. Unfortunately many use the "democratic union" argument to control your ability to make personal decisions. Unions that get to channel power from the government (commonly through regulations) can easily abuse their power. When unions are not voluntary they easily become HOAs for jobs

wbl 5y ago
The screen actors guild doesn't limit it's members ability to make money.
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  Um...it does. If you are in SAG you are not allowed to work on non-union productions.
geofft 5y ago
Why do you prefer these things to be controlled by management and HR? To be clear - I absolutely agree that these are all important and these powers need to be exercised wisely. But without democratically controlling them, every single one of them is controlled by management/HR. Why do you feel that management/HR is going to do a better job of controlling those things?
ramphastidae 5y ago
> There are things I do not want to be democratically controlled. > My ability to negotiate salaries with my boss is one of them. > The scope of my job (some unions get to decide what you are allowed to do). If you are an at-will employee in the US, your ability to do any of that is entirely at the discretion of your employer. You have no rights to do any of the above. You might have more leverage or better treatment in specific scenarios, but again, the hard truth is that all of this is entirely at the whim of management.
pessimizer 5y ago
Is there any reasoning that you'd like to share about why those things shouldn't be democratically controlled, or did you just make a list of the things that unions do?
- savant_penguin 5y ago
  Those are things I care about and do not want to give away for a union to decide for me or to have power over me. And some things just piss me off. In NY you are forced to pay unions dues just to be a teacher. It does not matter of you do want to participate or not. They have government like powers to charge you for something you do not want. In addition, it's quite possible that in the future someone like me could not get my current job due to regulation. I know people in the same line of work as me that is forced to pay union dues because of his degree. The unions associated with the undergrad course he took forced him to pay union dues unless he can prove his current job does not relate to his degree. This is just absurd but still happens. I'd rather not have other people have even more control over me, no matter how much the word "democratic" is added to the argument

wbl 5y ago

The screen actors guild doesn't limit it's members ability to make money.

DaveExeter 5y ago
Um...it does. If you are in SAG you are not allowed to work on non-union productions.

geofft 5y ago

Why do you prefer these things to be controlled by management and HR? To be clear - I absolutely agree that these are all important and these powers need to be exercised wisely. But without democratically controlling them, every single one of them is controlled by management/HR. Why do you feel that management/HR is going to do a better job of controlling those things?

ramphastidae 5y ago

> There are things I do not want to be democratically controlled. > My ability to negotiate salaries with my boss is one of them. > The scope of my job (some unions get to decide what you are allowed to do). If you are an at-will employee in the US, your ability to do any of that is entirely at the discretion of your employer. You have no rights to do any of the above. You might have more leverage or better treatment in specific scenarios, but again, the hard truth is that all of this is entirely at the whim of management.

pessimizer 5y ago

Is there any reasoning that you'd like to share about why those things shouldn't be democratically controlled, or did you just make a list of the things that unions do?

savant_penguin 5y ago
Those are things I care about and do not want to give away for a union to decide for me or to have power over me. And some things just piss me off. In NY you are forced to pay unions dues just to be a teacher. It does not matter of you do want to participate or not. They have government like powers to charge you for something you do not want. In addition, it's quite possible that in the future someone like me could not get my current job due to regulation. I know people in the same line of work as me that is forced to pay union dues because of his degree. The unions associated with the undergrad course he took forced him to pay union dues unless he can prove his current job does not relate to his degree. This is just absurd but still happens. I'd rather not have other people have even more control over me, no matter how much the word "democratic" is added to the argument