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> Database systems have subtle bugs and oddities, and you can avoid a lot of bugs by avoiding database systems. Wat? That is... not a great takeaway from this

> Database systems have subtle bugs and oddities, and you can avoid a lot of bugs by avoiding database systems. Wat? That is... not a great takeaway from this experience. "Oh, this library had bug reported in it! I know, that means I should just write my own, because clearly they're all buggy and my software is always perfect."

cbg0 5y ago
I'm pretty sure you missed the joke.
jerf 5y ago
Well, I mean, the good news is that if you write your own database system, you'll have so many other bugs in the way that you'll likely never reach this particular one! I suggest it can be called the Sirius Database. "It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of [the new database you just wrote] by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all. In other words—and this is the rock solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation's Galaxy-wide success is founded—their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws."
- piyh 5y ago
  >their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws That hit me right in my 9-5 "not invented here" nightmare.
acdha 5y ago
It's especially specific to MySQL — switching to Postgres is great because in addition to better performance and features there are all of these rakes in the grass you can forget about. Unicode just works, you never lose data because someone didn't scrupulously check the warnings after every query, etc.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Doesn't Postgres have its own set of unique of problems?
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Indeed, the worst of which is you can't do in-place upgrades - upgrading cluster versions is an insanely complex ride.
    - onphonenow 5y ago
      I routinely upgrade versions - on AWS RDS this is just a click or two in my case. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonRDS/latest/UserGuide/USER_UpgradeDBInstance.Upgrading.html#USER_UpgradeDBInstance.Upgrading.Manual https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonRDS/latest/UserGuide/USER_... When you say "complex ride" what does that mean?
      - jrockway 5y ago
        I am not sure if that procedure covers major versions (13 -> 14 for example), but if it does, they are ahead of the curve. On GCP, you have to backup the database and restore the backup to a new database. On self-hosted installs, you have to pick one of these processes: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/upgrading.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/upgrading.html
        acdha 5y ago
        It does. It’s really easy to outsource.
        AlisdairO 5y ago
        To confirm, RDS does support in place major version upgrade for postgres.
        onphonenow 5y ago
        They do an in_place upgrade using pg_upgrade I believe. They do have to regenerate system tables - they also automate I think some updates to system statistics. But for very large databases this really is the way to go I think. They do suggest a backup before you run this in case there are problems, most folks have periodic backups anyways, but the backup is not used.
dagmx 5y ago
A) it's an obvious joke B) even if you take it literally, they never suggest implementing something new You're misreading this on multiple levels
time0ut 5y ago
This is a pretty uncharitable reading considering the very next line is a recommendation to use PostgreSQL if you need a database.
dang 5y ago
"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cbg0 5y ago

I'm pretty sure you missed the joke.

jerf 5y ago

Well, I mean, the good news is that if you write your own database system, you'll have so many other bugs in the way that you'll likely never reach this particular one! I suggest it can be called the Sirius Database. "It is very easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of [the new database you just wrote] by the sense of achievement you get from getting them to work at all. In other words—and this is the rock solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation's Galaxy-wide success is founded—their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws."

piyh 5y ago
>their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws That hit me right in my 9-5 "not invented here" nightmare.

acdha 5y ago

It's especially specific to MySQL — switching to Postgres is great because in addition to better performance and features there are all of these rakes in the grass you can forget about. Unicode just works, you never lose data because someone didn't scrupulously check the warnings after every query, etc.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Doesn't Postgres have its own set of unique of problems?
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Indeed, the worst of which is you can't do in-place upgrades - upgrading cluster versions is an insanely complex ride.
  - onphonenow 5y ago
    I routinely upgrade versions - on AWS RDS this is just a click or two in my case. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonRDS/latest/UserGuide/USER_UpgradeDBInstance.Upgrading.html#USER_UpgradeDBInstance.Upgrading.Manual https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonRDS/latest/UserGuide/USER_... When you say "complex ride" what does that mean?
    - jrockway 5y ago
      I am not sure if that procedure covers major versions (13 -> 14 for example), but if it does, they are ahead of the curve. On GCP, you have to backup the database and restore the backup to a new database. On self-hosted installs, you have to pick one of these processes: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/upgrading.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/14/upgrading.html
      - acdha 5y ago
        It does. It’s really easy to outsource.
      - AlisdairO 5y ago
        To confirm, RDS does support in place major version upgrade for postgres.
      - onphonenow 5y ago
        They do an in_place upgrade using pg_upgrade I believe. They do have to regenerate system tables - they also automate I think some updates to system statistics. But for very large databases this really is the way to go I think. They do suggest a backup before you run this in case there are problems, most folks have periodic backups anyways, but the backup is not used.

dagmx 5y ago

A) it's an obvious joke B) even if you take it literally, they never suggest implementing something new You're misreading this on multiple levels

time0ut 5y ago

This is a pretty uncharitable reading considering the very next line is a recommendation to use PostgreSQL if you need a database.

dang 5y ago

"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html