14 ms·

Facebook chooses DIY servers over Dell, HP options

29 points by ahalan 15y ago

dfxm12 15y ago
“People want to be able to build it their way. They kind of want a Burger King: ‘I don’t like pickles — why do I have to have pickles?’” The big gain in outsourcing something like this/buying an "off the shelf" solution is that you don't get exactly what you want, but you get it cheaper because the people you buy it from are doing it at volume. When you need a solution as specialized as Facebook, it doesn't surprise me that the big players are unwilling to break their service offerings/support model (at a competitive price), because they are more concerned with keeping their own costs down. They don't want to have to hire people to support a special infrastructure for just one customer... Thus, Facebook gets what they need and at a better price by doing it themselves.
- danssig 15y ago
  >but you get it cheaper because the people you buy it from are doing it at volume. Since I've been buying computers I've never seen this to be the case. I have yet to see a single time that buying a prepackaged computer of any brand was cheaper than buying the parts on e.g. pricewatch and building it myself. Dislcaimer: I've always built machines with an eye towards gaming so maybe at the very low end this isn't the case. I'd be surprised even then.
  - dfxm12 15y ago
    Parts and labor are built into that price. You are also paying them to build it and for support. Again, you might not need that support and you might not need to have them build it for you, or you might need something that isn't offered in a prepackaged configuration... just like Facebook in this case.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  It's not just about volume discounts. In part, it's about not having to know exactly what you want. Your company doesn't have to worry about how many watts the PSU should be, or who to buy RAM from, or whether the case has enough cooling. You just pick between a few hard drive technologies, a few different CPU's, and how much RAM you need. It's also much easier to keep your server room homogeneous when you use off-the-shelf machines. As a custom builder, your parts will necessarily change over time as this or that part becomes unavailable, but goliaths like Dell can keep the exact same machine available for purchase for years.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
ubercore 15y ago
I wish they went into more details about the customization. Their description sounds like something that could be generally applicable. Who doesn't want leaner server with maximum airflow with a minimal amount of fans? Google's customizations make more sense, as they're integrating it with their racks (not doing DC conversion in the power supply).
- troyk 15y ago
  Not in the article, but they open sourced the specs http://opencompute.org/ http://opencompute.org/
Udo 15y ago
The last time I ordered servers for my employer, I was incredibly annoyed by Dell's website because it doesn't show prices on key pieces of hardware to business customers. The result is that you can't really plan anything until you start taking calls from extremely annoying Dell salespeople who eventually send you an offer with prices in it - an offer that may of may not contain the products you actually wanted. The worst part is that you just know you're getting totally ripped off (otherwise they'd have prices on their site) and that after this stuff finally arrives at your door the same obnoxious customer service reps keep calling you to sell you more stuff. So that was the first and last time I bought something from Dell. What an ordeal.
- jonknee 15y ago
  > The worst part is that you just know you're getting totally ripped off (otherwise they'd have prices on their site) Then offer to pay less. Sales people are annoying, but they can work to your advantage if you play ball.
  - Udo 15y ago
    No. I just want to order stuff at a transparent and reasonable price. How hard is that? I want a simple online shop with a few products to choose from. Click and order, done. I don't want to negotiate. I don't want to be on the lookout, constantly defending myself and my company from service reps who are trying to shaft us. I just want to buy stuff, not jump through hoops and be harassed. There is no justification in having those sales people around. They have absolutely zero technical information that I need, they're just sitting on the price. I know that my interaction with them and their skill in ripping me off is paying their salary - but I want them gone. Send them home, they are completely unnecessary legacy cruft. They are costing companies like Dell real money in lost sales. A few days ago I was talking to a sysadmin friend of mine, he feels the same way. I know I'm not alone in this. While we're talking about Dell and parasitic cruft, they should reconsider their mandatory commercial operating systems policy as well. It's nearly impossible to buy many of their servers without an OS already on them.
    - 15y ago
m1 15y ago
Google have been doing this for a long time. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html
pmarin 15y ago
Can anyone tell me the original source of this article? Is there a Facebook blog post or something?
jrockway 15y ago
"Don't worry, investors. Most companies put much dumber people in charge of buying servers, and those companies are still buying our overpriced equipment."
Toddward 15y ago
I kind of figured this was implied when Facebook revealed the Open Compute Project a few months back... http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/07/open-compute-project/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/07/open-compute-project/
knotty66 15y ago
At most (smaller!) companies I have worked, middle management seem to have chosen to buy servers from the suppliers that provide the biggest kickbacks - with Dell, PDAs or Laptops usually made a nice little sweetener to maintain loyalty.

29 points by ahalan 15y ago

“People want to be able to build it their way. They kind of want a Burger King: ‘I don’t like pickles — why do I have to have pickles?’” The big gain in outsourcing something like this/buying an "off the shelf" solution is that you don't get exactly what you want, but you get it cheaper because the people you buy it from are doing it at volume. When you need a solution as specialized as Facebook, it doesn't surprise me that the big players are unwilling to break their service offerings/support model (at a competitive price), because they are more concerned with keeping their own costs down. They don't want to have to hire people to support a special infrastructure for just one customer... Thus, Facebook gets what they need and at a better price by doing it themselves.

danssig 15y ago
>but you get it cheaper because the people you buy it from are doing it at volume. Since I've been buying computers I've never seen this to be the case. I have yet to see a single time that buying a prepackaged computer of any brand was cheaper than buying the parts on e.g. pricewatch and building it myself. Dislcaimer: I've always built machines with an eye towards gaming so maybe at the very low end this isn't the case. I'd be surprised even then.
- dfxm12 15y ago
  Parts and labor are built into that price. You are also paying them to build it and for support. Again, you might not need that support and you might not need to have them build it for you, or you might need something that isn't offered in a prepackaged configuration... just like Facebook in this case.
sliverstorm 15y ago
It's not just about volume discounts. In part, it's about not having to know exactly what you want. Your company doesn't have to worry about how many watts the PSU should be, or who to buy RAM from, or whether the case has enough cooling. You just pick between a few hard drive technologies, a few different CPU's, and how much RAM you need. It's also much easier to keep your server room homogeneous when you use off-the-shelf machines. As a custom builder, your parts will necessarily change over time as this or that part becomes unavailable, but goliaths like Dell can keep the exact same machine available for purchase for years.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

ubercore 15y ago

I wish they went into more details about the customization. Their description sounds like something that could be generally applicable. Who doesn't want leaner server with maximum airflow with a minimal amount of fans? Google's customizations make more sense, as they're integrating it with their racks (not doing DC conversion in the power supply).

troyk 15y ago
Not in the article, but they open sourced the specs http://opencompute.org/ http://opencompute.org/

Udo 15y ago

The last time I ordered servers for my employer, I was incredibly annoyed by Dell's website because it doesn't show prices on key pieces of hardware to business customers. The result is that you can't really plan anything until you start taking calls from extremely annoying Dell salespeople who eventually send you an offer with prices in it - an offer that may of may not contain the products you actually wanted. The worst part is that you just know you're getting totally ripped off (otherwise they'd have prices on their site) and that after this stuff finally arrives at your door the same obnoxious customer service reps keep calling you to sell you more stuff. So that was the first and last time I bought something from Dell. What an ordeal.

jonknee 15y ago
> The worst part is that you just know you're getting totally ripped off (otherwise they'd have prices on their site) Then offer to pay less. Sales people are annoying, but they can work to your advantage if you play ball.
- Udo 15y ago
  No. I just want to order stuff at a transparent and reasonable price. How hard is that? I want a simple online shop with a few products to choose from. Click and order, done. I don't want to negotiate. I don't want to be on the lookout, constantly defending myself and my company from service reps who are trying to shaft us. I just want to buy stuff, not jump through hoops and be harassed. There is no justification in having those sales people around. They have absolutely zero technical information that I need, they're just sitting on the price. I know that my interaction with them and their skill in ripping me off is paying their salary - but I want them gone. Send them home, they are completely unnecessary legacy cruft. They are costing companies like Dell real money in lost sales. A few days ago I was talking to a sysadmin friend of mine, he feels the same way. I know I'm not alone in this. While we're talking about Dell and parasitic cruft, they should reconsider their mandatory commercial operating systems policy as well. It's nearly impossible to buy many of their servers without an OS already on them.
  - 15y ago

m1 15y ago

Google have been doing this for a long time. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html

pmarin 15y ago

Can anyone tell me the original source of this article? Is there a Facebook blog post or something?

jrockway 15y ago

"Don't worry, investors. Most companies put much dumber people in charge of buying servers, and those companies are still buying our overpriced equipment."

Toddward 15y ago

I kind of figured this was implied when Facebook revealed the Open Compute Project a few months back... http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/07/open-compute-project/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/07/open-compute-project/

knotty66 15y ago

At most (smaller!) companies I have worked, middle management seem to have chosen to buy servers from the suppliers that provide the biggest kickbacks - with Dell, PDAs or Laptops usually made a nice little sweetener to maintain loyalty.